30-30 vs 7.62X39 ballistically

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61

at what range?
are we talking ball vrs soft tip?
close range with anyone of those rounds (ball) they would most likely zip right through unless striking something hard however the 5.56 would be more inclined to yaw.internally.

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62

Never shot a human but lots of game. A round traveling over 2K ft per sec will make a significantly larger entry hole be it FMJ or HP. The exit is where the HP or BT makes the difference. Usually leaves a beer bottle shaped wound cavity.

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63

At shorter ranges, say 200 yards. How about with premium expanding ammo out of all 3 (5.56, x39 and .308)? Im not very knowledgeable on ballistics, what exactly is “yaw”? I usually just buy black hills 77 gr for SD or shooting coyotes and 55 gr fmh for plinking, ive never looked much past that.

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64

funny how range concept is different, to me short range is 0-50 metres,or what I could accurately / effectively engage with either pistol or smg (smgs we had to qualify minimum of 100 metres but that target didn’t shot back) or any thing was in range (up to 1000 metres) with the rifle. The minimum requirement was to be able to effedtively group at 600 metres and at least half of us would push it out a lot further because we could (or weren’t hung over).
Yaw - turn sideways

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65

Makes sense and thanks for the info.

66

if you can effectively shoot a yote and it falls down than you are using the right ammo. Up here I have used my VZ58 (7.62) on yotes with just the standard surplus crap (because we can’t use anything AR based except at a range) but I have to concern myself with shot placement (because I have seen the round impact the body and the coyote run away), so my POA is head/shoulder from the side or head front on. If that doesn’t present than I don’t shoot.

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67

It will penetrate one wall, that is two sheets of drywall. After that it is mass reduced to powder basically, that’s the point. “Zero validity” and “magic bullets” pull your head out of your ass.

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68

so where is your validity and not your opinion
the test I saw of DRT penetrated four sheets, and traveled further into the gel with out fragging then the “real” bullet.
I do agree that you should be concerned with collateral damage but your opinion will only get someone killed (including the child on the other side of the wall)
so you be the judge

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69

not sure why I have to defend myself from a ignorant opinion but here goes
taken from manufacturers website
" In tests, the DRT 85 grain 9mm bullet penetrates semi-hard barriers like sheetrock, plywood, car doors, bone and most glass, then still performing well passing through clothing and into the gelatin test block. "

btw sheetrock is a harder form of drywall.

“DRT is now offering a less expensive, lead free way to learn and train while still maintaining the high standard of performance from our Terminal Shock line. This ammo is training round specifically designed to mimic DRT’s Terminal Shock Ammunition. It is designed to have the same velocity, point of impact, and recoil as the Terminal Shock, without the terminal effects. The TMJ projectile is made from a lead free alloy that is fully copper plated. Leaded primers are used to ensure proper ignition but the projectile is 100% lead free.”

and if you knew anything about ballistics, physics, kinetic energy and something referred to as the spall effect or that the paper/gypsum will fill the bullet cavity in essence creating a solid tip. And beyound that the very composition of drywall isn’t hard enough to cause the shedding of the jacket which it allows to stay together and not “turn to dust”

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70

Good, a person not standing on their soap box and thumping their chest as they hold their holy of holiest AR-15 over their heads. :slight_smile: I saw a study where it only penetrated two sheets of drywall and that is the minimum penetration I have found of any round. And in a gel block the frangible ammo only penetrated 10", once again the best ammo I could find in avoiding over-penetration through both specified target and the unfortunate wild shot through drywall. it will not penetrate through a brick wall, period. In a densely populated residential area that is a priority, that one limits the exposure to collateral damage as much as possible. I would always choose anything other than an AR because the velocity is against you as well as the size of the round. I am not in the needle pusher club. I prefer a .40 caliber pistol with subsonic frangible ammo. The AR fan boys can have their AR and whatever collateral damage comes with it. I have fifteen rounds and a second magazine, so there is 30 rounds of potential and no lengthy barrel to get caught up by anything including an intruder’s hand.

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71

^ Shots fired!!

(to hit 20)

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72

EDIT: Apparently, frangible does actually turn to dust. And here I thought was just missing the lead core.

I’ll stick with hollowpoints that expand, stay together, and slow down on impact. Use the right tool for the job. CzechSix already posted a good Drywall Penetration test. .223 under-penetrated when compared to .45, .40, and 9mm.

AR-15s/modern sporting rifles are the single best tool for home defense. Capacity, customizability, handling, etc.

7.62x39>30-30 because of the widespread use.

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73

30-30, AK
 both will penetrate just about everything inside your home. This includes couches, tables, refrigerators, washing machines, and any wall in its way EXCEPT brick. However, the washing machine does work best if you can get it sideways between you and the offending incoming round. Yes, i have shot holes through all of this stuff. Perks of having redneck friends. Lol.

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