Bad Moon Rising

That really is a good reply, those are traits that allow children to be lead

Two things I think noteworthy with this issue many seem to have of taking just one or two things from all of scripture, one, a believer may well find company with non believers, let that sink in, not good, not something I want at all.

will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers

Two, hell is full of regret

Worm is regret

What are you all waiting for, its here and now, the being taken before rulers, the spirit speaking for us, its not a futuristic event for another generation


Some aren’t even getting a chance it seems. The monsters are getting away with it so far…


As a young preacher a much older minister told me . That when considering scripture a singular verse taken out of context cannot be used to form a dogma … ie… and they shall pick up serpents… for instance.


Reminds me of the Georgia Guidstones, which then brings to mind how odd it seems that its never been spotlighted as a terror attack, no home grown patriots blamed, just nicely cleaned up, as if there never was a monument on US soil dedicated to reducing the earths population to 500,000 :man_shrugging:


Is that not what I’m faced with here in this thread, and throughout the forum?

There are 80 books in the bible, 66 if you’ve been robbed, no one wants to admit there are opposing views, rapture for instance, before or after tribulation, a case for both exists, everyone wants to believe it will happen and before, is that not what you all hear?

Yet both Matthew and Mark read as even the elect would not survive without the days being shortened:

read on, after the tribulation

then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect

Yet across this land Churches assure the laity they have nothing to worry about, they’ll be raptured before the rapture

Am I incorrect on any of this?

And the way Protestantism started, a King wanting a divorce, Luther who promoted violence against Jews, laws making attendance to the new reformed Church mandatory,
no concern

And the utter perversion of Gods word, no concern

Westcott & Hort, two clergy men and open occultists, whose own letters expose their love of seances and total disregard for Eden, Heaven, the flood and the cross, made their own Greek manuscript which cleverly deleted out and added in whatever they thought they could get away with, without causing a furor. Interestingly, they expected some push back on their changes even back then…but they heard nary a peep since it was, after all, easier to read….Again, all of this information is gleaned exclusively from their own correspondence published by their children after their deaths. That is the only way we know these facts about their unbiblical beliefs, reverence for the occult and motives for changing the scriptures…and we are all reading and teaching from their Bibles.

I’m not facing a:



Israel is the chosen , we are the grafted in branch. As the certianty of pre/post/Mid catching away. That I feel is something must be looked at from the point of wrath . The tribulation is a time of wrath upon a world that is now wholly ruled by the anti-christ ( who by the way as pointed out in scripture is already here working in those that do evil) .
Seeing that all things are working toward the end in Gods eternal plan it stands to reason that everything as discribed will happen.
Back to the wrath if one feels they deserve Gods wrath then this verse means nothing to them. Which reads as follows:For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians:5:9
Now if a person has obtained salvation .How can they face wrath also? For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
To receive Life is the gift that comes through Christ Jesus . I can assure you of this.But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1 Thessalonians:5:1For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians:5:2
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians:5:3
These three verses leaned to the creedance of pre-tribulation catching away.
Why ?
Because upon the wicked abideth wrath and Judgement it shall come swift and severe.
How shall the church function in a world ruled by complete wickedness.
My thoughts only but, it is only those who have rejected that should face such times. Why would God place those "called out ones " into wrath

“ekklēsia” translated from the greek meaning church.
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church;(ekklēsia:called out ones)and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


So your short answer is no, correct?

And yes, a case for both exists?


There could be a small case suppose, but I do lean respectfully toward no to the thought. One thing as I said No one knows the day nor the hour. Hour used often in the Bible to describe a period of time .


Imay get flack for saying this possibly but I felt in my Spirit that that shot was bad juju thats why I never took it and by the grace of God I havent gotten sick either. I placed my trust in him not in man.

There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.


AMEN! I got the Gospel preached to me, and people witnessed to me. I was rcc at the time and I asked the pastor for a bible. 3 months no bible, I asked again and for catechism vatican II. Got the catechism next week still no bible. 3months still no bible. Asked again, waited a month and asked again, brings me a bible finally and says “well I guess we won’t be seeing you around here much any more.” Now that statement said more to me than anything else because it said that he KNEW the truth but wasn’t going to, or allowed to say it.
Been gloriously saved by the shed blood of JESUS CHRIST since April 29th 1995 in my living room at 8:30am by myself, and will never go back to the person I was before that.


ok, I could go on if asked to, but it seems to really be a blue pill red pill scenario, the blue pill allows you believe what you want to believe, the red pill is quite different.



Blue pill/Red pill :pill: nah dont see it like that . If it were so then your point of view would be definitive and final.
But I get the point your making honestly I do.
It isnt like I haven’t ran into this very question myself and I have studied on this subject also. I became a Christian in 1979 started preaching in 1990 . I have studied and sat under men who studied and taught for many many many years. In the Overall large Scheme of things its a question that ministers little to the edification of the penitent IMHO. It is an end time question and not a question that deals with our current stage of santification.
3 stages in this Christian life , Justification ,Sanctification ,Glorification.I suppose we shall both have our answer when we see him split the eastern sky.


The dispute over the Rapture for me boils down to what did Jesus mean by one will ‘be taken’? Where did the taken one go, were they “raptured” away somewhere, or does it have different meaning? To understand the ‘Rapture’ question it seems important to figure out what Jesus meant. Just where did the taken one go?

This ‘Taken” teaching of Jesus’ is recorded nearly identically in two places, and in both was being used by Jesus to explain the ‘Time’ of His Return and its importance. Seems like a good place to start.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

As always context is everything. Prior to both passages Jesus relates what the conditions on earth were like just before His return. He explains that there is a similarity of this time to the days of Noah, and then He tells how they will be alike. That they were eating and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark completely oblivious to the fact that they will be ‘Taken’ Away.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

Mat 24:39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Mat 24:40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

Mat 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

So as in the days of Noah, just before disaster struck the people, they were living their lives as usual until it was too late, and the flood took them away. So, we are led to understand that In a like manner, in the time immediately prior to Jesus’s return, a similarly unexpected disaster will befall the people as they are going about living their normal lives prior to being ‘Taken’.

The crux then is what does this ‘Taken’ here in this instance mean? It seems clear to me from the preceding verses, 24:37-39, that “will be taken” means they will lose their lives, just like that sudden loss of life that happened in Noah’s day, that it will happen again immediately before the return of Jesus Christ and we will see it confirmed in Luke.

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Here Christ goes on to teach we cannot know the when, but the implication to me seems plain. We are to prepare as Noah did, in our case to be spiritually ready for the Messiah’s Return.

The other account is in Luke 17:

Luke 17*:*26-31 King James Version

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Luke 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Again, we learn that it will be just the same as in Noah’s Day when Jesus Christ returns. People will be living their lives as normal when disaster will surprise.

Here Jesus adds that the people of Sodom in Lot’s Day, were just as in Noah’s Day, living their lives as normal until disaster struck. Here Jesus also adds an immediacy, an urgency that it will happen so fast that there is no time.

No time for what? To save you stuff? To save your life? Your family? No because they all will be destroyed. In my opinion it is the time of Salvation that has ended. The time to save your soul has run out.

To me the preceding verses make it clear that “will be taken” means to lose one’s life, and thereby one’s chance at immortal life. It seems that the disciples didn’t fully understand it this way this because they asked Jesus, “Where?” The same question we sought to answer in the beginning… In other words. Be Taken? Where?

Luke 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Here In my opinion, we get our answer. Its meaning is quite clear based on the context. So clear a child could understand it. Eagles, although predators, are given to taking advantage of a free meal of opportunity so to speak. So the gathering of eagles could show that there is a carcass nearby. An obvious sign, so to find them, to determine where they will be taken simply look for the signs. With the dead everywhere simply look for the gatherings of eagles to know exactly where.

I was taught that this Eagles is more appropriately Vultures instead of Eagles which increases for me this literal interpretation. I looked it up in Thayer’s Greek Lexicon to explain why some teach Eagles is an imprecise translation:

STRONGS NT 105: ἀετός

ἀετός, (οῦ, ὁ (like Latinavis, from ἄημι on account of its wind-like flight (cf. Curtius, § 596)) (from Homer down), in the Sept. for נֶשֶׁר, an eagle: Revelation 4:7; Revelation 8:13 (Rec. ἀγγέλου); Revelation 12:14. In Matthew 24:28; Luke 17:37 (as in Job 39:30; Proverbs 30:17) it is better, since eagles are said seldom or never to go in quest of carrion, to understand with many interpreters either the vultur percnopterus, which resembles an eagle (Pliny, h. n. 10, 3 "quarti generis — viz.aquilarum — est percnopterus), or the vultur barbatus. Cf. Winers RWB under the word Adler; (Tristram, Nat. Hist. of the Bible, p. 172ff). The meaning of the proverb (cf. examples in Wetstein (1752) on Matthew, the passage cited) quoted in both passages is, ‘where there are sinners (cf. πτῶμα), there judgments from heaven will not be wanting’.


It is definitive and final when you take the red pill

as to the blue pill Revelation gives me hope as the term repent is found ten times

you should note the conjunction junction here, “and” , its not put their by accident

just the same as its not accidental here

Note the closing chorus of the song

I didn’t mean to raise any dispute, I meant to show how there are contradictions and beliefs should not be inconsiderate of those.

Do you see the contradiction?


I have, and do. There are others that have impacted my life. I seem to have a literal streak, a show me streak, and a stubborn streak too.

I was taught by my father to live by Occam’s Razor. With God I tend to think mostly he teaches at three levels. The first one is the simple one. It’s the level for children and the simple minded. This is the one am usually most sure of… :rofl:


Y’alls moon pics are awesome and way better than mine. I took these a few weeks ago or so from my backyard. I tried to zoom in on the other pic, but it came out blurry.


Sure I do, and I have no problem with that point of view at all. Im cool with however you or anyone wants to roll


It’s very simple. Is GOD just, yes. IS GOD faithful, yes. Does GOD lie, no.
Then when JESUS CHRIST says we are forgiven from ALL our sins it means past, present, and future. Since JESUS CHRIST is the propitiation for ALL our sins when we are Born Again, JESUS’ words John3, then we are forgiven of ALL our sins. The time of Jacob’s Trouble, the End Times, the Tribulation times are a time of judgment on the gentiles and a time of purging and purification of the Hebrews. Since GOD already said that HE has removed all our sins (the saved, the Born Again) Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. is it just then to again judge us for that which the price has already been paid? No, it is not thus I hold to and stand on a pretribulation rapture, That there is a coming event in which the saved will be taken home is of no doubt. 1st Corinthians 15, 1st Thessalonians 4, and 2nd Thessalonians 2 all make that clear. Also as had previously been mentioned in several verse JESUS CHRIST states plainly one will be taken and the other left. SO unless 1) GOD lied, not possible, or 2) JESUS CHRIST’s work was not perfect, also not possible, I am going home when JESUS comes in the clouds and there will I ever be. AND I WILL comfort the other saints with these words (!st Thes. 4:18)


Lets roll this one

As a verb that can mean to rob by force, as a noun roll can be a register; list of persons belonging to particular group, it may mean to add someone to record, as a saying it can mean lets get on with the show

So there is almost always plausible denial something else is/was inferred, and the thing with plausible denial is belief changes things, what does the person speaking believe, what does the person hearing believe?

Recently someone mentioned to me the term allegories, things people give power to by believing, in a group, often occult, often an advertising method, either way, it requires many people to believe to have power.

Below I’ve added a collection of scripture verses and Christian based definitions, let the reader discern

All scripture is from the 1611, all definitions from Websters 1828

Perhaps you’ve read them, perhaps not

Revelation 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Count, A transitive verb which exerts its action on an object.

The Object is Six hundred threescore and six, 666, the action is to count the object 6+6+6

The result is the number of a man … eighteen (18), the result of understanding

Consider your legal contracts, must be 18, next is the MARK

Revelation 13:17

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

M`ARK, n.

  1. A visible line made by drawing… like a signature


  1. A sign, stamp or mark impressed.

Consider now to legally buy or sell a home you need to sign a deed, legally buy or sell a car you need to sign a title, to get a job you need to sign an application, sign a W9, to cash your pay check you need to sign or deposit it, in a bank which requires you to sign more documents

next is the NAME

That bank account, it has rules called KYC, know your customer, you have to have ID, this ID has your NAME, note your ID, your NAME is in all capitals, this is done to represent the artificial entity known as the STRAWMAN, its not you, its a legal fiction, an assumed character, you give it life with a description, height, weight, eye and hair color, its known as YOU, but not you yourself, unless you believe it, which is your right to do, but its what a lawyer represents in court, not you yourself, but YOU the legal fiction, you yourself are the private client who hires the lawyer for legal representation of the artificial entity, again, to give it life.

Back to buy a home, you must present your ID to a notary, and mark (sign) as witnessed by them, the private you uses the public YOU, your assumed character

This STRAWMAN is an image, its a likeness of man, man is a creation of God, STRAWMAN is a counterfeit, an image a lie

Revelation 13:16

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Right hand

thinks its all about literal meanings?

Matthew 6:3

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

can you explain that as literal

Right hand


  1. Authority; legal power. We have no right to disturb others in the enjoyment of their religious opinions.


  1. A person; an agent;

Right hand, legal power of your STRAWMAN

you sign the deed, or title, or legal document listed as JOHN DOE using your legal power


goes back to your right to believe you are YOU, the legal fiction

  1. Impudence; confidence; assurance; audaciousness.

If we go our entire lives and never know YOU, we effectively live in the legal system of the beast, working inequity

Matthew 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:27

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

In this legal system the lawyers represent YOU

Luke 11:52

52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

When you plea you defend, and also judge

Matthew 7:2

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

If you accept probation to avoid trial you are a reprobate


  1. Not enduring proof or trial; not of standard purity or fineness; disallowed; rejected.

Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the Lord hath rejected them. Jer. 6.

  1. Abandoned in sin; lost to virtue or grace.

They profess that they know God, but in works deny him, being abominable and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate. Titus 1.

  1. Abandoned to error, or in apostasy. 2Tim. 3.

The lawyers represent YOU, and artificial man

So, are YOU the man of sin? is it time for him to be revealed?

2 Thessalonians 2:3

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

key notes

Revelation 22:15

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

what is a STRAWMAN if not a lie, if your life is built upon believing you are this artificial entity … and you love it

The X signature

An X is used by persons who can not write their name, a STRAWMAN could not, often a witness signs next to an X, so it can be said such and such person vouched for the person who could not write, if you sign next to an X are you not bearing false witness of the STRAWMANS very existence?

So, all of this is crushing news for the reader, but were we not warned

causeth all

Revelation 13:16

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

deceiveth the whole world

Revelation 12:9

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

However, there is a remedy, there is Victory

Revelation 15:2

And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Its not up to me to present any of this as fact, we must all discern for ourselves