Thanks @Minuteman. I do agree that the new grip design on the Daniel Defense rifles don’t exactly match up with I currently use or enjoy, but I didn’t want a $20 cosmetic issue that could easily be swapped out spoil a pick for one rifle over the other.
I do like the fact that with BCM, you can order an upper to your personal specs down to the type of muzzle brake I would want pinned and welded for the 14.5" barrel to meet the 16" limit. I guess I get so confused/overwhelmed with which parts come from where, what’s worth investing money in over the other, etc. $1,500 for a rifle is a lot of money, I’m really just trying to make sure I talk to some guys and gals about what gear they run and what they’ve had positive and negative experiences with.
I really appreciate everyone’s pointers and opinions on the post (except for the piston stuff - not really sure why that was introduced, but whatever). I’ll do a bit more reading and hopefully I’ll share what the final result ends up being.
I love my M&P 15 and I’m capable of hitting targets out to those distances. The thing is, my M&P 15 has a carbine length gas system. I don’t get bruises by any means shooting the rifle, but I would like to see if I can find a softer shooting AR rifle for faster follow up shots. Based on some research and reviews that I’ve read and watched from Mr. Gunsandgear, MAC, Sootch00, Travis Haley, etc, mid length gas system AR’s with a 14.5-16" barrel and sometimes with a good brake offer some of the softest shooting AR’s on the market currently. I like the idea of having a 14.5" barrel, so I wanted to step outside the box and get myself something a bit different then what I own. Also, my M&P 15 features a 1/9 twist barrel compared to the 1/7 twist. I want to try something that they say handles heavier loads like 62gr, 68gr, and 77gr bullets. I’m not trying to use this as my “all-in-one sniper rifle/cqb rifle.” I’m just trying to pick something I can invest in that will live up to it’s name out on the range. Daniel Defense and BCM seem to be the top picks for the guys I get my data from, now I’m just trying to narrow it down to one over the other.
@boringusername,
I fully understand your reasoning behind the features you want. I personally just couldn’t see justification in buying a complete rifle when both manufactures offer uppers for far less that would meet your criteria/specs. If it were a matter of diametrically opposed rifles(a home defense carbine vs varmint rifle for example or an SBR vs a three gun rifle) I could understand, but you’re talking a carbine(in length, not gas system design) in both instances.
The only reason I own 3 AR’s is that 2 of them serve far different purposes. The YHM is my varmint/target rifle while the M&P optics ready carbine is my home/defensive rifle. The M&P sport is purely superfluous. I picked that up as something my nieces could shoot in order to save some wear on my other 2(they shoot A LOT!!!).
Don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT trying to convince you that purchasing another rifle is a bad idea. If I had the coin I’d likely buy 1 of every AR/AK/FAL/SCAR etc variant on the market. I just think that, in your case, going the upper/trigger/furniture route on a rifle you already own makes more sense. That way you can truly have a rifle that is set up exactly as you want it. No questions of “X uses this brand barrel, but I don"t like their forend” or “Z uses Y furniture that I love, but not the brake I really want”.
Key to efficient use of 77gr bullets is stabilization and thorough powder burn in order to gain momentum because it’s very velocity-dependent. So you’ll need proper barrel length, nothing under 16". 18-20" is ideal for those heavier rounds.
Which one gives you the best value for your money? Both are good firearms. Like Tim said, personal preference, so which one gives you the best price for what you want in a rifle?
I think cost isn’t really the issue as the biggest cost factor by far and large associated with fire arms is not gun purchase but ammo cost. So the price of AR-15 X vs AR-15 Y is irrelevant if you’d ask me. As for value for money: you can’t really go wrong with either one of them. DD vs BCM is BMW vs Mercedes. PWS and LWRC are Audi and Maybach though
It might just be a different though approach between you and I. Like you said, BMW/Mercedes. Just as a caution, many people equal best value for your money as being cheap. That is not my intent. My intent is what rifle, all things being equal, will be the best buy for one’s hard earned money. If one can get the BMW for $1,500 cheaper that the Mercedes, all equipment being the same or comparable, then go for the BMW.
Both are good choices IMO. With that said, I’m in the process of building a MK12mod0 clone using mostly BCM parts, mostly because of reviews such as what Tim did at the MAC channel as well as some friends of mine who have used BCM builds for competition and swear by them. I will say I am very impressed with the quality of every BCM component I have ordered.
Yep. You can’t go wrong with either of 'em. I just lean towards BCM for the same reasons you pointed out yet would not mind owning anything DD. All of the top level AR-15s are superb. PWS, LWRC, LMT, KAC, BCM, LaRue, Noveske, DD, HK, Vltor etc, you know which ones I’m talking about, all of those bands are excellent, triple A, top notch brands.
I definitely second that. DD went tits up in some tests as of lately. Rob [Ski] and another guy I cannot recall quickly had the same problems with the v11 I believe.
Amen on the Bushmaster and DPMS being junk. I have owned both and had problems. Had a few friends with issues with DS Arms as well.
That said, I’m a DI guy but I am looking at Sig and a few other Piston makes. What is your recommendation? My main reason is the folding stock. I have a few builds in DI with the Law Tactical folder but shooting with stock being folded appeals to me now. I prefer a AR platform and am not a fan of the Scar.
How much accuracy do you lose going to piston? Most my builds are Seekins SP 223 lowers (which are the Best Lowers on the market) with a Vltor upper, and a quality barrel in 223 Wylde with a matched bolt or if not available a JP bolt. The last 2 builds I did using AR15 Performance barrels have resulted in .25" groups (3 shots 100 yards 77gr match ammo).
PWS, hands down. Their piston design is solid and very well thought out. It’s more of a subtle push rather than a punch. It balances like a DI gun, as opposed to other piston driven designs on the market (which often suffer from carrier tilt issues: HK, LMT etc). PWS ARs are also amazingly accurate, just as good as any high end DI AR-15.
Thank you sir. Gonna sell a DI or 2 then pick up a PWS. I was hoping you would say Sig. Shore Galleries here in Chicago gives a nice LE discount on Sig. Do you know of a dealer who has them at a good price? I have accounts with DSG, Rainer, Midway, and a few others. Most makes are cheaper from a retailer than direct from dealer even with a discount.
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I meant to point out the same reasoning you did.