“A few here do talk about it, right now we discuss our differences, which seems easy as I was once a good protestant, bible thumping, Jesus this that and the other, but now largely left the bible authority behind, in a manner of speaking ,And believe in the Church, that’s all I seek to share, its not easy, lots of flak”
I will comment on these in more detail when I have time .


Comments are fine but are they prepared to counter, or to consider?

That as phrased is mentioned numerous times, as well so is the phrase kingdom of heaven

Are they synonymous?

Are they now (current)?

What did He mean, at hand?

  1. Near in time; not distant.
  2. In a state of execution.
  3. Under one’s care or management.

If its to be taken from one nation, and given to another:

then the last option seems most likely,

that as well indicates its already existing

assuming now they are synonymous as both sound existing

if its already existing, and was taken from one nation and given to another…

Why wait for death to expect it?

If you can wrap your head around that, then you should be able to question your religion, where its got you, has it got you to seek entrance to the Kingdom now?

Whence you are, it means where you come from, that verse precedes again, being cast out of the Kingdom

And there’s that term inequity again, essentially not following the strait path, so not following the straight path, not know whence, or how you came in as you did not come in through the narrow door

So, if the Kingdom is under ones care or management, it was taken from one nation and given to another, who’s care now, and how do you come in?

Think keys here, think door keeper, think binding on earth as in heaven

plowing again the same ground, working the tough soil

As some people so strongly reject Catholicism and the Popes leadership of the Church I think its a good idea to point out a few things regarding the fateful decision to reject Her, the Church.

Initially we, the human race were in Gods presence, our failure to follow one simple rule (disobedience) caused roughly 5k years of misery and death, an eternity worth for some.

Since God generously and unworthily on our parts provided a remedy to that we now have an opportunity to be returned to His presence.

If however, you the reader take the position that the Church and its leadership are not biblical or correct you risk a repeat of this same situation, history repeats.

Satan, the Devil caused havoc in Heaven and was cast out
Satan, the Devil then caused havoc in the Garden of Eden
Shall we assume he has caused no more havoc since then?

How might he?

We’re to be subject and obedient to the powers that be.
Breaking that rule the first time separated us from God
Breaking that rule a second time is a final time.

Satan loves to subtly lead us to break the rules, surely yea shall not die, surely yea shall not need the Church or any Pope

If you rely solely on a loving God you neglect the other side of Him.

Then you should not be surprised if you find the other side of Him.

I like to think of this verse describing Her,

Strong, beautiful and desirable.

But, is the Church His Bride?

John was shown Her

And John describes new Jerusalem adorned as a bride

He (Jesus) is due back as He set off on a journey, we know He is called the Son of Man, and He spoke of such a thing in a parable:

And He left His house, and while the Church is said to be His Bride a house is also defined as a church.

  1. An edifice or building appropriated to the worship of God; a temple; a church; as the house of God.

ironic? I digress

He then gave His authority, which is also known as:

  1. Legal power, or a right to command or to act; as the authority of a prince over subjects, and of parents over children. Power; rule; sway.

to his servants, that term is in part defined as:

  1. One in a state of subjection.

And there’s a note Servant differs from slave , as the servant’s subjection to a master is voluntary, the slave’s is not. Every slave is a servant, but every servant is not a slave.

And also note here next He also directed “to every man his work”

to every man his work, we have work, what work, varies from man to man, but we can read:

Some to church, some to government, a distinction, but both ordained and directed by Jesus Himself to be carried out.

And next, a case for the Pope himself, a man and a specific job for a man

and commanded the porter

A porter is defined as:

  1. A man that has the charge of a door or gate; a door-keeper.

and he’s commanded to watch.

  1. Guard; vigilance for keeping or protecting against danger.

Back to the Kingdom, if new Jerusalem is His bride, who is the church now?

Maybe its not quite as clear as we thought

Lets not forget the kingdoms care and management is taken from one nation and given to another, keys to the kingdom, binding on earth as it is in heaven

Here He compares the kingdom to ten virgins, bridesmaids?

Bridesmaids waiting for the wedding, so not the bride?

If what we think of now, believers, are not the bride but we’re all bridesmaids, all Christians, Catholics and protestants, then that parable bodes poorly, for half

The half that

new Jerusalem is as John seems to describe the bride is described as a physical city, gates etc, Jesus is there, and the saved are there, or, at least within its light?

Would you leave your protestant faith for a new faith?

If the Kingdom is

And Jesus was that man

and down the road new seeds were sown

what would be done?

If you left your old faith, would you truly be leaving it, or adding to it, new and old?

Romans XIII is powerful, but I’ve found time and again, other books seem to have powerful chapters titled XIII

I’m working on this for me, I can’t work on it for others, but we can work on it together.




his insistence that the Bible alone is the source of Christian truth and his related belief that everyone is capable of understanding the biblical message.

Contrary to scripture

Do you see yourself that everyone is capable of understanding the biblical message?

How can a man who devotes his time to other affairs, how can a man who simply does not read well, or understand well, why would there be any need for church or deacons or bishops at all if only a bible is needed?

This man responsible for the theory Sola scriptura denied the power of the church, but left room for tasteless humor, hatred, women wine and music.

That’s the seed that Protestantism grew from, well, for now, we let it grow.


No, I would not why, I already have faith my faith aint in a church or an organization.

Any believer who has believed in the name of Jesus.

Because it isnt the church that is the key to entrsnce it is the Word of God that does the work …not the church.
Well, I never knew Martin Luther and I would not be surprised to find that things that were attributed to him as things he said having been stretched or distorted.
I say that in no defense . I simply say that to say in the hostory of mankind. We have always found it easy to run others down. Why ?
To get ourselves who of someone we have interest in or with.
I also can find it at the same time to possibly be true that all those statements were true .
But to me the experience that I had with the Lord speaks more than words attributed to a mere man .
I wonder since the early converts didnt belong to the RCC are they eternally lost … andwer ?. Of course not because it doesnt take a Church it takes a Saviour. It didnt take a Church ( the Jews already had one of those)
It took a Saviour (Jesus).


Now you’re making it easy for me, reminding me of Peter,

That rebuke came from the Word of God, Peter said Jesus did not need to do things that He did need to do, even to be subject to the powers that be, Rome.

Pick up your cross and follow me, ironically, somewhat still seems to lead to subjection to Rome, no?

Deny himself, don’t think Luther would say that, do you?

Did Luther not champion things that be of men, primarily independence, selfwill… seems he had no fear to speak evil of anyone either…

If we believe it Sola scriptura but we ignore Romans XIII then are we actually following Sola scriptura?

Does Romans XIII not come from scripture?

Well there it is, right in scripture, be subject to the powers that be as they are all from God.

Once you deny or ignore it how can you say you accept Sola scriptura?

Do you not become willingly ignorant of it?

Why did Jesus need to be baptized?

Why did God need Moses?

Why did God test Abraham’s faithfulness?

What if the very existence of the Church is meant to test yours?

While its long out of use once upon a time this was a definition for Salt

SALT, n. A leap; the act of jumping.

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The Bible isn’t a made up story used to control people. When you do that, you don’t air out the dirty laundry. Peter running like a coward is only one of the examples. There is no correlation to that, and Judas (a goat, tare, leftists, whatever you want to call him) was chosen because he was a devil. The Lord Jesus Christ came to die first. Judas was just one of the Father’s pawns, but he might still be in hell.


He is cause in Matthew it says he was sorry but lacked Godly Sorrow . Repented to himself

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
He had regret but never sought forgiveness.


:joy:glad to be of assistance.

No, he says Me … not it .
We dont follow or at least I dont follow an organization or something like that.
For that matter we dont follow anyone on Earth .
Jews discovered the end to that calamity .
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.


…and where did He go?

Jerusalem, which was under Roman rule, and He went humbly and obediently.

And then yes, commands if we’re to be counted worthy we follow him

And humble He was, so many ways

Interesting it was a learned trait…

There was have it, He was subject to God, who put all things under Him.

All things, RCC included.

All that commanded,but stay away from the RCC?

and persecute you… did it ever occur to you Luther began the persecution of the Church?

But, not just the Church, or the Jews

Can you, really?

Because there’s a lot more to learn, and if you’re willing to look at it, look at how it all began, you might find those

Strain at the simple truth, and swallow a huge amount of… well, a camel is a good way to put it

Near 200 Protestant denominations, and 35k non denominations, tares among the wheat

Been there, had to have that talk with my Priest, can that and others things be changed?

I’d like to see some personally, and that’s the thing, if you’re not in it you have no standing to do so.

But the other thing is each thing has an answer, and you have the ability to join and not do pretty much anything as I’ve seen, freedom of conscience, which is likely a fruit of the reformation, can’t say for certain but seems likely, it is there now.

The yoke truly is light.


What did he say?


Of course he was a man. Just like the pope is a man , your a man im a man .
Many times the popes through the years have made and said controversial things. That dont line up with bible either. So where to now? Huh. Guess what aint none of us perfect except God.the Pope could just as easily have it wrong and be headed for hell.
How can you be the one w h o knows for sure ? Cause they told you. Come on Robert . Aint nothing on this planet infallible.


I had brought up that and repetitious prayer in advance and then met with him, he had prepared two sheets of biblical examples on both.

For father there were numerous examples, the term in just the old and new are found over 1500 times, with a majority not used to describe God, which was his point, I still don’t like it and would prefer to see it changed, but as priests they earn it

They earn the title (like sergeant or professor) as they go through all the requirements to earn it, they become the fathers of their perspective houses, rather than use the terms Shepard and sheep its father and children, they are not our Father, Jesus is the Word, the bible is the word, its one of those things, think serenity prayer, accept what you can not change, courage to change what you can, wisdom to know the difference.

To that end, are we not children?

That last one is pretty important, we’re to humble ourselves, its difficult to do both, resist and be humble, it really is one or the other

You’re so close

You know the important factors, just men not Gods, yet you still hold back, and for what reason?

Of course the church is lead by men, of course they error, why are you personally grudging that you will not test the spirits, what did they do to you?

So they error, and we forgive them, why, because we want to be like Christ, if they offend you should you turn away and leave or remain and turn the other cheek?

You think the church is evil and yet

Did Jesus lead that example?

Have you not been opposing me contesting the same?

That despite all the scripture verses I post you know for sure the RCC is wrong?

How do I know anything?

All I can share is again, being like your drinking buddy who stopped drinking and found a new life, who wants to share it with you, and as expected you push back, and as your old friend I hang in there with you, waiting patently for the day you share you quit drinking and are attend meetings, then we shall together praise His name, and you shall know, shall:

and should understand with their heart, and should be converted

As patriots, as men, there’s not much asked that can be more difficult than to deny ourselves and be converted

Except ye be converted, and become as little children

they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them

when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren

You have an advatage I did not have, I did not first consider the reformation as bad, I though Luther was a genuine champion

Now I know there’s a ton of resources on the man, and while you can assume they are meant to discredit him you need to just look further

Here’s but one book





And I’ll re-quote and conclude


Who set those requirements.

The apostle Paul sent the requirements to Timothy.
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1 Timothy:3:1-5
Who is the Pope married to ?
For that matter who are any of the priest in the RCC married to . Seems to me something is amiss there.

Again Robert you see the RCC has formed traditions that they follow contrary to the teachings of the Bible.
So where does that leave the RCC when all your clergy remain unmarried not by restraint but by the rule of the RCC .
What supersedes what ?
The Bible or the rules of the RCC?


Take note of that and your struggle, know that wrest means to wrestle, to struggle

ALL the clergy take an oath of fidelity, they have a heart, sincerity and loyalty we just do not understand, they have a love we can not understand, what you call restraint, they call duty and devotion, and you dare speak against them?

and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Can you and I even conceive of receiving that type of devotion?

Do you realize Daniel and perhaps other Prophets were likely eunuchs?

The idea is to remove anything that hinders service to God, or in Daniels case it may have been to the king he served, and that’s an example in itself, how many examples of Godly men are there that serve the powers ordained by God, to serve God?

To answer, the Church is founded on the blood and authority of the Messiah, that is Jesus, the new covenant supersedes the old, it does not destroy it, it fulfills it, therefore all new scriptures after that time are recordings, profitable for reproof and doctrine, but do not have any power, the Church has the power, as protestants we have had the cart before the horse, literally, until we convert.


The point was against tradition( their oath) formed by the RCC instead of the Bible.

Seems like a rule not a devotion.

I disagree with that the Church has no power other than that that God has placed in every believer.
Even upon the act of preaching, witnessing, evangelism, and missionary work it is the Word that performs the work. Even through the unsaved even.
The church is nothing without Christ Jesus.


I’ve added more verses, for context.

That’s a pretty simple command in the Bible, but the RCC finds it fit to ignore. What else is the RCC willing to ignore to their own benefit?

As far as serenity prayer, I do not accept things that go against scripture and claim to be the way to salvation. The Word is truth and truth does not change.


I like what you offer, and have already agreed with you its not of my desire, nor repetitious prayer, nor not using the 1611 as it is my preference to do so, its what my ears are tuned to and what I use.

Your context here should begin with the subject matter, Moses seat

and those who sat in that seat were essentially lawyers, mind you, no new thing under the sun this is the same as today

This gets into things that are meat, and not milk, things I began with before joining the church and things I continue to work on, a lot.

Now, if we we’re to discuss pro’se law I still could not advocate not at times utilizing lawyers, though much can be done without them and preferably so, but there is most certainly instances where you 100% want to let them do the lawyering, its the wrong thread to discuss even if I were to discuss.

So, the parallel is there are things you 100% need the church to be doing

And yet you ignore the truth.

This goes for both, the court and the church, both are

powers that be…

The court today I find the same as the court before, the very questioning of Jesus was to jurisdiction, and Pilate found

When cases are before judges now lawyers fill in the details and swear its to the best of their knowledge and belief, they do not swear they are truth.

I find this the first step, sadly most is gained by trial and error, you try something, it fails, you get the hindsight 20/20 of it and learn what not to do.

This is where the apocrypha, hidden things, begins to open up

You must try.

If you fear the church, never try her as you are commanded, never face the danger as it is taught

well then… I’ve plowed this ground before.

But you are at least engaging, that’s good, many leave outright or shut it down, by engaging I feel the spirit is at work in you, so what should you do?

In my opinion go to a Mass and observe, DO NOT take communion.

Just observe, and listen, then ask around, who runs the RCIA class, I say ask around as some may not know, different people have different jobs, they may not know or concern themselves to know, but when you find those people you’ll be in the right place, next sit through the class, beginning to end, if in the end its not for you then carry on, if it is, be confirmed.

Its that simple, that’s how you try the spirits.

And some disagree a pro’se litigant can prevail, that’s their belief, and I can not believe for either them or you, I can only believe for myself, but I have seen miracles, have been blessed by both court and church in ways others will never know, and it saddens me, both accounts, because they are related,

That hindering I witnessed, but now understand how the church prepares you first, again, why was Jesus baptized?

It makes no sense that God in the flesh required anything at the hands of men, but there was a need for it, as there is for the church

I love hard preaching, and love many different preachers who perform it, many SDA preachers are very good, many Baptists, and yes they do all those wonderful works in Christs name, I do not deny it

And neither will He deny those works

But He will deny them

You say that thinking somehow He is not found in the RCC?

Go try the spirits while you can, eternity is a lot time for worms to wiggle around in your head

  1. Remorse; that which incessantly gnaws the conscience; that which torments.

Think on it like this, and think of Moses seat, call no man your judge, and don’t think the church judges you either, it prepares you, it qualifies you properly, so things like this are avoided

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Are they right.
Is there enough right in the wrong to pass . Is there enough wrong in the right to miss the mark ? On either side in or out of RCC how can millions in other faiths all have it wrong how can mill I ons in the RCC have it right?

The fastest growing religion isnt Baptist or RCC.

It is Islam .

So now tell me is it a religion or a cult . Do they teach adheherence through force ?
Adherence through faith ?
Adherence through brainwashing?
Aherence through subjection of the rule odmf a man or a church. is akin to the same in my book.
I am in subjection to Jesus thats it.
I could walk away from Baptist organized religion tomorrow and it wouldnt change the outcome of my soul would it not to go independent ?
In the early days of the church in the apostles days they had bo sign over the doors.
There was no church buildings.
Islam never existed .
Catholics never existed.
Baptist,methodist etc…never existed . Only saved by grace existed.
So when was the first Catholic church service held ?

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Good question, can I answer, maybe, if we assume it was Pentecost would you understand the spirit at that time came only to those men who were assembled there, those men being the early church leaders?

Again, its an assumption, maybe not given to know, or maybe given but difficult to understand, as I noted above was John 21:17 the first

Bestowed upon Peter?

Can the office of Bishop have a continual succession?

Remember, some things are hard to understand and our wrestling with them may not end well

Its the mystery of faith, and the idea behind letting go and letting God

Was Sunday actually instituted in the Bible?

Again, can I now, or ever actually answer you?

Do you receive my answers at all or like a drunk try to justify the positive health effects of alcohol, seemed Luther did that to the point of saying a sleeping drunk won’t sin.

You question well for He said few find it

Did I ever promise you all Catholics are saved?

Or explain the Church prepares you, properly, how can anyone know the heart of another, Catholics as I believe you yourself have pointed out are just men, was Judas not one of the twelve?

What was his own place?

If it had to be scripturally fulfilled, does it not boggle your mind he followed, then betrayed Jesus, and this was required, and known in advance, its sad, truly, and the admonishment from our Lord, better to not have been born, its awful.

So if one of the twelve did not make it then can I promise all Catholics do, what have I been trying to say

Should you be concerned with millions, or maybe right now only concerned with one?

And yet when the Pope attempts to bring them into the fold he is condemned and rumored to work towards a one world order, which is going to happen, it will be under our Lord, so why slander the work?

That’s the idea, cleanse your mind of sin

Ok, interesting profession, does that include Sola scriptura or not?

Is Sola scriptura His word?

Do you receive His word?

Because the word describes subjection to Jesus only as…off

Off as Jesus sought only to do the will of His Father, who ordained, according to the word of Romans XIII, all the powers that be, all that we’re supposed to be subject to.

No, I do not believe it would change a thing to go from a Baptist denomination to an Independent denomination.

Well we can discuss ad nauseam, you can wrestle with it to the grave, or, go try the spirits to see if they be from God.

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That was a prophetic piece of scripture in reference to the betrayer Judas Iscariot.

Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

That is surely not the reality .
A one world religion will be ran by the Devil .
The anti-christ will have all the world follow the false prophet and his image .
It is and will be a religion of subjection.
Subjection in the bad sense
A type of communist rule.
Worship or die. That aint religion that is persecution of a cult .

I assure you ,in my spirit they dont line up .