No, it was a comparison to make you think, if the office of Bishop can be taken from one and given to another, then it should as well be able to be held in succession as the Pope does, why not?
Again, you miss the big picture
There will be a one world order ruled by Christ, how will Islam be saved?
I once felt that way, its the very hub of Protestantism to protest the church, then I tried the spirits as scripture says to and my judgment was changed.
Even the Great King David had to confess a wrong
And the Great King Nebuchadnezzar
And no doubt many others changed their direction, but you seal your own fate with assurances before you try them?
What if you did try them and found you were correct, and it multiplied your own witness tenfold, I mean if you think Satan is there, go prove it, so you can say you seen him yourself.
Would that not be worth the effort to try the spirits?
Funny how its so simple, and so difficult at the same time.
It clearly means a geographical location in context of of the statements preceeding it (field of blood, habitation, dwell, etc). It is the only time that word is used in the Bible and the man was not referred to as a bishop, so it is not talking of his position.
So context is Judas, Judas we read in 17 “had obtained part of this ministry” which was his bishoprick (office)
He was a disciple, one of only twelve, a church leader, so Judas is the context, not the land
and his bishoprick let another take
read emphasis is on “his”
Meaning he’s not going to be fulfilling his duties any longer and needs to be replaced, the duties are that office of a Bishop
We are not told that his specific region, diocese or district was that particular piece of land but that he was a Bishop and that office can be passed on in succession
This is my context here, if you allow yourself to see it, you’ll see it everywhere and your life will change
So again, only if you allow it you will you see Judas was a bishop, and that there is a hierarchy established, Luther abandoned that and substituted himself, he teaches all men to do the same, that the established church is not needed.
Picture the whisper here in his ear, not so much
but rather
And the serpent said unto the man, Ye shall not surely need the church
Adam was not first deceived.
But Eve who was lead him too into that trap
And thats what the devil does
deceiveth the whole world
So that’s what we have, men are deceived, and then continue the deception
Good reply on your part, but
Clearly the context is subjective and no matter how many plagues brought by God Pharaoh never truly gave in, he would a bit, then withdraw, over and over, a hard heart, Jews wont accept Jesus, protestants wont accept the church.
But Jesus is a gift, that no man can boast, so how can we have our cake and eat it too?
Reject what He established, and accept Him, the gift?
If you accept Him as the head of the Church is it not “my house my rules”?
His house has bishops.
What exactly do you all (protestants) think the Church is?
Know ye not, that is the question, don’t you know?
Know if you are serving sin or righteousness
whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness which is it?
Servants to His servants
with a soft heart to the Church’s doctrine
you do then become servants, true, but to what?
Again, a hierarchy, but of a family, with siblings that you submit to as family
Or you reject that servitude, that family, and accept the liberty that Luther promised
That’s truly it isn’t it, context is subjective
watch here from 1:40
You can watch it from the pov of a man, the analyst who lets the people do whatever they want “in his world”, that is the certainty, you run your own fate, his freedom is your fate, pun intended, no unexpected or unknown rules of/from the church leaders
View him as Satan, then Trinity flies in, note Neo walks in, largely unseen
Think of Trinity as just that, Trinity, its why She can supernaturally fly in, Neo walks in, but stands with her, who is Neo?
The freedom he offers is the certainty you are in control of your own fate
Discussed in the first movie
Neo is not yet awake, he wants to do things his way.
But I digress, its all about you, right?
Right, it is, its up to you to read and understand, but again, know ye not, don’t you know?
Except the suffix “-rick” (also -ric) denotes area, such as district. If it meant his station, a more suitable suffix would have been used (i.e. -hood or -ness). Words matter.
As with all the protestant discourse I’ve been privileged to partake in here you are defending your choice to not be part of the Church,
I work in the same word you do, but our perception is different, as with any problem you should try to tackle it differently, rather than try to show me my error, try to understand how I got in this position, reading the same word as you, using protestant commentaries, still listening to protestant preachers, and defending the Church and the Pope.
If Satan was pursuing me why push me to the RCC, I was very near death during my conversion, had a heart attack part way through, I would get a double high to buy on MLK, just being there is a rush, lol, its not my place for sure, I had already left the Baptist church, walked away from the Militia order, found the dark rooms in raunchy strip clubs, been all but crushed in metal mosh pits, ventured into hellish abodes, bought bikes, guns, boats, jet skis etc etc etc and never able to fill that God size hole in my soul.
How did I find peace in the RCC?
Why spend any of my valuable time in these threads able to relate to how Moses must have felt with Jews answering protestants who pick even a suffix to try and prove me in error?
Again, I was already well conformed, what need had Satan to push me to the RCC?
I ushered in the Baptist church, spent over two years under a hellfire and damnation preacher, headed alter calls, lead and closed in prayer, went Saturday evening, twice on Sundays, Wednesday nights, every revival or related event, dedicated my business publicly twice, had a good name in business also, did Fed, State, County and Municipal contracting as well as worked for many affluent people, hired people others would never dare hire, lol, trust me on that one. but never knew what peace renewing or your mind could bring and left.
I know about suffix’s, I have some pretty tattered dictionaries, my Blacks Sixth is well read, my 1828 loved equally as well, etymology is a passion, when I discovered that my 1611 as not truly a 1611 without the Apocrypha I was pretty upset and quick to read it through a couple of times, but as precious as knowledge is there are things more precious.
So, keep fighting, protesting, rejecting, resisting, all those things, or put them on pause, find an RCC, go through their RCIA class, and come back to me with those things, as that’s how you try the spirits, you go to them directly, not me, I’m just a guy who did and wants to share what I found.
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Acts:1:16
No it specifically says it was prophesied about Judas Iscariot.
What does the replacement of a traitor have to do with the appointment of a pope ?
I dont get that Correlation at all.
For succession is mentioned no where of the apostles.
Once they all died they were gone. That position in the church is finished.
There are only 12 names found on the 12 foundations of the holy city . The office of apostle is done.
So the Correlation of the apostle Peter as first pope and a succession is a fantastic example of people making there own offices. Trying to proport in someway that every successive pope is somehow a apostle of God is really quite weird.
A protestant source, for your benefit, you don’t trust a Catholic to preach to you so I give you a protestant.
I used to be a protestant and used the 1611 before, during and after my conversion, you don’t give up your faith as a Catholic, you add to it, everything you have, added to…
I should hope that me equating that to be weird wasnt construed to be spiteful. I just dont understand how the Catholic church comes up with their stuff.
I know the verses you qouted them .matter of fact I know the one . Matt 16:18
As a whole there are singilar verses which should be taken on the face and can be part of what makes up the dogma of a religious belief system .
For instance .
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew:22:37
Then there are others which were meant only for a certian person in a certian time and certian job. For instance …
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luke:10:19
I dont think any one will be running our to tread on some snakes or scorpions very quickly.
As a young minister I was taught. That all though some verses are part of a dogma .
No singular verse should ever be taken and an entire Dogma formed around it .
That is what I think the RCC did with Matt. 16:18
Its all about finding a place in scripture to place a foothold.
IMHO
So I agree with you, it should not be done and why I spend so much time pointing out so many other verses
Yep, I know, again, why I take the time to try and help
That’s because you’re looking through the wrong end, again, scripture is documented tradition, and the the New Testament only documented a very small portion of the early Church.
The irony here is you reject 1500 years of early Church tradition, throw it away for 500 years of reformation, and that is built on so very few verses, you allow it on one hand
To justify the protestant stance, and then condemn it on the other
Saying its what Catholicism is founded upon.
Catholicism is not the new kid on the block, it is not built on any single scripture verse, its 2k years old and built on faith.
Weird is no offense, its scriptural itself
And its not spite I worry about, its children of the kingdom cast into outer darkness.
I dont think I explained well enough.
Yes I believe in Rom10:9 but I also adhere to the rest.
The context or actual use of the verse must be looked at .
Going back to the verse about snakes and scorpions …
Are ya gonna adhere to that one ? Am I ? Nope! Why because it wasnt meant for us. It was meant for the original apostles sent out .
2000 yrs. Of tradition.
I dont think the RCC has been around that long.
I dont think the Bible is tradition.
I believe it is the Word of God which was recorded by unction of the Holy Spirit by men called by God.
Tradition is not secure doctrine.
Other religions have entire books of written rules to follow of tradition.
It serves no purpose ither than trying to set people in certian places a hierarchy if you will.
In protestantism we all are one body just each with different offices , different gifts of the spirit but none to think themselves better than another.
Neither is confusion.
Neither is Subtility.
Neither is deception.
Think is the operative word there, you don’t think, think brother think
As I said it only records the very early Church, but in it we find recorded this command
By our words or our letters, with all the great advancements of today how much of your day to day affairs do you record?
Can you assume at that time more effort was spent when pen and parchment was such a premium?
Oral tradition is how it was largely done, Jesus taught the apostles and the apostles did the work, and taught their apostles, and so has been the tradition they teach each other through their succession
This is true, but neither are the locks on your doors secure, do you completely remove them?
I have a great deal of distrust with tradition, its not easy for me to defend it, if something is not in the bible I get real uneasy and sketchy, but… guess what is scriptural
So, while there are Catholic teachings that I am very uneasy about I do not simply condemn them, I’m not forced to accept them and I proceed with caution, focusing first on what is scriptural, leaving the rest for due time.
If that were true we’d have such a different discussion, it would be more about questioning and learning than defending and shunning, but when we think that by our use of the bible alone we are more secure than those who use tradition then we are thinking ourselves
What have I been saying?
Explaining means to make simple, the simple here is you resit.
You resist the Pope like Jews do Jesus, you resist delegation of authority, and that is essentially that of a sibling, an older brother or sister, remember, we’re adopted to be spared from our eternal death sentence, would you want to adopt unruly children or loyal obedient children? …children … cast…outer…darkness
The Pope, Bishop of Rome professes Grace, His blood,the Trinity, Virgin birth, he is your brother in Christ, thereby we live in the same house with the same heavenly Father, yet protestants are offended by him
My best advice, go be confirmed into the family, save the resisting for each thing in its due time and as it comes, but when that comes, ask if you truly understand what and who you are resisting, if all things are ordained by God, there may be only one answer.
As do I and to lay a huge defense against what you perceive to be reality is the clear fact that the Catholic Church through TRADITION views Peter as the first pope .
There is no proof of this . No written word of it . No Nothing !
I find it much easier to do so using the written word to disprove Catholic practices and tradition.
Even in apocryphal writings we find no evidence offered that Peter was the first pope.
If tradition is the crux of the Catholic church then why hasnt each and every pope of supposed succession to Peter follow his example and have a wife ?
Why do they also not teach as Peter did that elders are not to Lord over the members of the church but to be teachers ,under-shepherds .
Because as the old saying is the proof is in the pudding.
I see statues, praying to Mary, Peter set up as pope without proof, just to name a few off top my head that all can either be argued against by scripture or show they are completely derived of men for some other reason or the other.
Proof I say show it . Have the Catholic church prove it .
Prove me wrong ,
Just because someone tells me I can step on broken glass barefooted I wont get cut isnt going to make me do it.
Because the Bible specifically teaches against the need for an earthly high preist.
The teaching your now part of in many ways fly in the face of the entire teachings in Hebrews concerning Christ being our High Priest.
When and where did the Catholic church get such an idea that they could set up shop and add all this type of conduct they used for hindreds of years to control entire countries placing people under oppression . Torchering people boiling them in oil , burning them at the stake etc… who set them up as Judge and jury . Who said they were allowed to judge . At what point did someone decide they now had the right to supersede the judgement of God. " vengence is mine saith the Lord"
So you see how protestants can see how the Catholic church has been totally out of line for centurys .
How much behind the scences are they still influencing political efforts across the globe to what end ?
What is there goal?
One world religion.
Welcoming the fastest growing religion into the catholic fold .
Who by its nature was a completely made up religion based around a murderer .
Mohammads own kind threw him out so he amassed an army came back and through force killed them all and forced his newly minted and penned by himself .religion upon the masses. For what purpose control its all about control.
All religions that have atop their super structure a singular human person have always been about control.
It is much the way totalitarianism, or communism works.
Keys are a permanent kind of thing. Jesus didn’t say “I’ll take them back after you die”. That would not make sense. Catholics think Jesus gave Peter the “office” just as Eliakim had been given the “office”. Jesus gave Peter power to bind on earth. So Peter had power to name a successor, which Catholics think he did. He gave the keys to Linus, who gave them to Anacletus, who gave them to Clement
Key word in this article 2 times is “Think”.
I had a teacher in school who was pulled over for running a stop sign .
The cop said ,I think you ran that stop sign.
He said nothing signed the ticket then took it to court.
For his defense he told the judge he said “I Think you ran that stop sign”.
Well long and short he won and didnt have to pay the fine.
These daily volleys are such a blessing, thank you for remaining and participating.
Certainly I hear and even recently people condemn such discussions, they say you should not engage to try and win, that its not right and is wrong, but it is a battle, the prize is a soul, I can not think of a single reason to not wan’t to engage so long as it is mutual and beneficial, which no one has to run the race, unless they want to obtain
Admittedly it is frustrating when the other party seems to not hear, but that can be seen in scriptures.
Keys are simply evidence of the delegation of authority you’ve been given, when you ceased being a LEO you gave back your badge, which was the key to getting people to subject to your authority as an officer, on earth as in heaven.
Granted, but that’s why I showed the Bishoprick as it related to Judas being given to another, Jesus does not take the office back, it is given to another
Read, And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven
And then hear
Its not for everyone to hear, but if you want to, and pray to, I believe you will, truly I believe it.
help thou mine unbelief.
Statues of Mary as explained to me by another Catholic:
Do you have pictures of your Mother, yes, do you worship those pictures, no
a statue is no different than a digital picture, a tool for remembrance.
Now, the praying to Mary, yes they do, and just yesterday I spoke to a cradle Catholic about that as its uneasy for me so I wish to understand why they do.
I explained propitiation above as
The woman I spoke to explained it like that, the idea being Jesus will treat a request from His Mother on your behalf as extra special, I asked if thats the same for Saints, she said yes.
Ok, as a former protestant I’m not aligned with those beliefs and practices, I do not see them as scriptural, but I’m willing to listen and ask, so what is scriptural?
First, help thou mine unbelief.
For me and with Sola Scriptura in mind for you and I together
So can you do it, yes, should you do it, up to you, the church in no way commands you do and validates your right to not do it if you choose not to, neither do you have to call a priest father or pray in repetition or even take a new name for confirmation.
Can you prove to Jews Jesus is Christ?
No, welcoming the people, not the religion, like Jews some of the Islamic faith convert to Christianity, what is the great commission?
Extremely well and its a great testimony to those who do not believe in our Lord at all, it is utterly shameful and a disgrace, and yes its been for centuries, about five, since one man sought to sow discord among the brethren
Satan entered into Judas and he betrayed Jesus.
Have you yet studied the life of Luther?
Can you imagine Satan entering into him?
That’s your job.
If we ignored everything written about Luther, and we accept he championed only the freedom of conscience in the church, then he is a victor, the church now allows freedom of conscience, so with that thinking, having won, what need is there to further protest?
@Robert How do you feel about papal infallibility.?
It seems to me to that as a former protestant you can see how this late doctrine of the Catholic church was used to once again place the Catholic Church and specifically the pope as the direct voice of God which cannot sin.
This seems highly suspect .
Lets shake this one around and see what falls out of the pot .
The mere fact that it is a RCC standing of a man that to me proves the case and is proof to me it is a false teaching.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans:7:19-25
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark:10:18
Looking at these 2 scripture text we see that it is impossible for a man even one the likes of Paul to be infallible .
…as far as the deposit of divine revelation, I read that to be scripture, which is exactly what you claim, charism is gift, so gift of scripture, you claim scripture free’s you from the Pope
So again
If you put even a tenth of the effort into going and trying, or, proving as it is
as you do to resist I bet you’d already be defending her with me
Odd to see, Pharaoh resisted, Jews resist, Protestants resist
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