Bullpup Weapons, pros/cons what's new

We are headed out sometime today for a shoot. Maybe will will have time for video

3 Likes

7 Likes

Hahahhahahahaa :+1:

3 Likes

Nice :+1:

4 Likes

Sometimes you just have to have fun… bullpups help with that… and smoke

5 Likes

He is also speaking from a mostly AR15 owners perspective, as are alot of people here. (Myself included)

Checkout this thread , go about half way down. I posted some articles I found from various blogs and forums on Israel’s opinion of the Tavor.

Also a neat article on an Israeli unit that switched back to the M4 from the Tavor.

3 Likes

Cant remember if I asked you but what does the maintenance look like on the Tavor/x95s?

Barrel/bolt life expectancy/round counts?
Spring life?
Any issues with the frame cracking?

I havnt seen much info out on the endurance of this platform.

2 Likes

7 Likes

Holy smokes… thats a whole lotta awesomeness

4 Likes

They are supposed to run 20K with no problem… i have not run anywhere near that! All of mine show very little wear.

5 Likes

https://www.swatmag.com/article/tavor-armorers-training-putting-it-all-together/

3 Likes

Proof that Hitler is no longer in charge :open_mouth:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/08/01/potd-germans-and-israelis-working-in-harmony-g36-tavor-collaboration/

4 Likes

https://iwi.us/from-the-frontline-to-the-homefront-meet-tom-alibrando/

3 Likes

So how does the F2000, Aug , Tavor/x95 and MDR compare to eachother?

3 Likes

Oh man… what a question!
First off, I was excited about getting a S2000 yeats ago… well FN screwed up and made the port size in the barrel to small. So… sold them all. I wish I had one, just to have one now…

As for the AUG, Tavor / X95 and the MDR…
:thinking:
Similar but different?
First off, LOVE the X95… my MDR though is badass and it is 308… i would grab either one in a pinch. While I love my TAVOR… I do like the X95 better.
Now the AUG and I go WAY back… like 30 years…
Love the rifle. Really do. I have a black 16" A3 now. Do not like the new charge handle they came up with compared to the old one and I do like the bolt catch.
I think I would be more in love with it again if the one I owned took the NATO mags… besides that, I really like it.
I would Grab that X95 over the AUG though…
I have a 16" X95 and a 13" SBR… my TAVOR is a 18" unit with NV, Eotech and lasers.
I run the X95s suppresed.
Now I run the MDR suppressed too.
That rifle rocks. Love everything about it except trying to adjust the gas block with the hand guard.
What I really like is that I can take it all apart! Really clean it and it is true ambi and, you can fire it from any position. That is super sweet.
I am not planning on selling any of them any time soon.

6 Likes

The IWI TS12 bullpup semi auto 12 gauge… oh hell yes.
Waited 2 years for this. It didn’t last 2 minutes before I ripped it apart and it is in the oven curing… :grin::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

7 Likes

:grin::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

6 Likes

The gripes about the handling being foreign when compared to ARs is valid. But bullpups just aren’t ARs. It’s a matter of training with them and IMO nothing more than that.

I have 2 bullpups, a KelTec RDB and a DT MDR in .223 Wylde. The RDB is a decent range gun and kickin’ around the homestead gun, the MDR I would take into the puckerbrush or CQB and stake my life on it if I was young enough to still do that.

The RDB is quite a bit lighter than the MDR out of the “box”. Also out of the box the RDB had the better trigger. My RDB pooped itself after 21 rounds, it was sent back to the mothership, at no cost to me, for repair and has been reliable ever since. The MDR has been reliable since the first day.

I bought the MDR because I want it in .300BLK and the only way to get it in that chambering is to buy it either in .308 or .223 and buy the .300BLK conversion, which I’m still waiting for. The gun is a bit heavy, and made heavier because what is .300 BLK without a can? So after assembling the MDR on day one, an hour later after pictures I removed the slim handguard and installed the fat handguard, then screwed on the AMTAC CQB can. My plan is for the MDR to never wear the slim HG again. It will always either wear the can or a blast forwarder. The trigger on the MDR was pretty decent, but I’m a competitor and am trigger sensitive. I haven’t bought many guns that I haven’t upgraded the trigger on. The MDR didn’t escape that fate. At first opportunity I put the JARD trigger in it and now it’s got a better trigger than the RDB. It’s a nice gun and the only gripe I have is the weight, it’s heavy for a .223/5.56. Of course I made it worse with the can which I can somewhat fix by putting a blast forwarder in it’s place.

I like both rifles a lot.

I feel a story coming on about bullpups, and it’s a true one. 1 1/2 years ago, late May, we woke to choppers and fixed wing aircraft flying back and forth and hovering overhead. I went back to sleep but shortly was woken by the phone. A neighbor was calling to let me know that a cop killer was in the area, yada, yada **. So I reached over and got my 16" suppressed AR and brought it out where it was easier to get at should it be needed. I wasn’t alone, the entire hill where we live locked and loaded. We had a K9 unit prowling around, a tac’ squad and an armored vehicle in the dooryard pretty much all morning. The road was lined with squad cars and our normally quiet road was a hubbub of activity. I have animals and in the afternoon the cops left our land and we went out to care for them. I initially went out to chores with the suppressed AR. That didn’t last long, it was in the way and bumped into everything possible and found things that were out of the way to bump into. So I went back inside and traded the AR for the RDB. That was MUCH better due to the length. Still not perfect but much better. The MDR was still on order at that point. I lived with the RDB for 4 days until the killer was arrested.

The difference between the suppressed AR and RDB was the length of the rifle. That spurred me into motion for a SBR. The 9mm PCC SBR is slightly shorter than the MDR the way the MDR is set up today*, but add a can to the SBR and it’s significantly longer than the MDR with it’s over the barrel can. then there is a huge diffference in ballistics between a 7" 9mm SBR and a 16" .223/5.56. Bullpups have everything going for them as long as one trains with them. Yeah, I know about inertia too, I started using an M16 in '70 and have used ARs since, so for me a bullpup was just as strange as it is for anyone else. But we can train and learn and it doesn’t need to only happen at the range. I’m a competitor and I dry fire and handle my guns at home to get accustomed to them. You can too if you have an open mind and want the advantages that a bullpup offers.

*4" shorter with the slim handguard and flash hider (as received from the DT factory) rather than the longer fat handguard required for the over the barrel can. Yes, it’ll take a can mounted on the end of the barrel, but why would I want to do that and remove one of the key advantages of a bullpup!?

** google “Officer Cole Maine” or “john williams manhunt maine” for the story. Those searches should turn up something.

Without pix it didn’t happen, I know, I know… Well pix weren’t going to happen at midnight. :smiley:

The MDR with slim and short fore end, flash hider in place.

With fat and longer fore end and the over the barrel can in place. Blast forwarder below. With that fore end in place one of those must also be in place. If one compares the length of the fore end and barrel from the end of the 'scope between pix one can see the slight increases in length. That’s pretty short for a suppressed rifle.

And my first SBR, a B&T GHM9 seen here after I was able to acquire and put the folding stock in place, I bought it as a handgun and had it arm braced while I waited.
It looks quite a bit different today with a non folding stock for a better cheek weld and a bunch of other things I did to it. It’s my PCC competition gun as well as the rifle I take when the wife and I go for walks.

7 Likes

I absolutely love the Desert Tech MDR… mine is in 308 and suppressed with a Yankee Hill Machine Resenator.
I have sold quite a few MDR rifles and have thought about getting one in 556 myself.
For a suppressed weapon inside a vehicle, wow… why would anyone want a standard rifle?!
For me, switching from one platform. To another is not an issue… but I grew up on bullpups and not ARs…
I totally get your story about a regular rifle just being cumbersome while “working”
One of the reasons I LOVE the P90
Holy smokes that is a tiny, but potent weapon!!

4 Likes

Yeah, I like it alot too. I think the negativity is due to the lack of understanding DT had regarding the intended market. I saw some extremely childish posts on forums regarding DT. I could see that DT was new to the mass market, but clearly I was in the minority. I had to wait 2.5 years for mine and some folks were waiting much longer. Then they came out with v1.0 which had issues. But to their credit they fixed them for the folks who wanted the fixes (some folks like misery so that they can gripe and get attention, or have no patience) and now the gun is 100%.

Check out the pic with the CQB can on it. I put the pix there after you responded so you didn’t see it. Yeah, it’s easily usable from an auto or CQB and no blasted eardrums. It’ll be better with the cartridge I bought it for, the .300BLK. At the moment it’s a bit louder than I would like since it’s a .30 can being used for .223.

Yeah on the P90 too. Very small gun. I’d love to have one but I put my foot down about new cartridges that I need to reload. Locally we have a youngster using one in 3gun, I’d never seen one before but it’s a very small package. Not a bullpup, and I’m starting to go off the rails here, but I built another SBR to see just how small I could make a packable .22 rifle. The base gun was a Ruger Charger. When disassembled no part is longer than 11.5". It assembles in way under a minute and disassembles just as fast. Yet another gun that I use for competition. It, like the GHM9, swings very fast with no barrel mass hanging “out there” to start and stop moving (and settle down). Taking my time and not on the clock it’s accurate enough for small game at reasonable distances. It’s no tackdriver but that’s not what it’s about. It’s yet another gun that can go on walks. I don’t even know I have it slung. I have yet to make the “tool roll” that I want for the disassembled parts.

5 Likes