Buying Votes!!! Yet another example

Dont take the discussion incorrectly.
We are discussing not arguing.
We all offer up differing opinions and viewpoints for all to discuss.
Then everyone can digest the banter and go forth and conquer.
You may wish to call it Pre-Debate practice.
I myself respect every comment presented across the Forum.

Except
The discussions that AR’s are better than HK’s and Glocks are better than 1911’s.
I gotta draw the line somewhere…

:wink:

6 Likes

what if it is a HK made AR?

I am assuming you meant AK

2 Likes

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that how we won our independence? That wasn’t cowardice.

But I didn’t take from @Sarge4206th comment that he was condoning violence or an uprise.

2 Likes

@RedAngel now we are moving into the realm of resistance vs revolution. To take revolutionary action against ones government and not expect loss is cowardice and foolish.
If the current movement is resistance as so stated above then we are not ready to talk about the actions and motivations of our forefathers as reflected into the current situation…
Patriotism did NOT drive their actions. The desire to self govern and to be free of an oppressor did. (in the most honorable version of our revolution)
If you want to discuss what frame of mind and action pathway would need to be taken to replicate the actions of our forefathers we would need to have that discussion elsewhere. It has been made evident that full30.com will not support conversation in that direction.

3 Likes

“Defending your rights with your votes and speech precludes the need to defend with your rifle.” Paul Harrell

5 Likes

Amen

3 Likes

A big question has to be asked here.
Why aren’t people voting?

Is it because they don’t care for either of the two dominating political parties?
Do they not feel educated enough on the issues to make an informed decision?
Is registering to vote too complicated or time consuming for them?
Do they feel that no matter if they use their voice and their vote, that the system and its people are corrupt?

Of the people who do not vote, what are their beliefs? We can not assume that gettiing more people out to vote will be favorable to our side (what ever side that may be). Who will they be voting for and what issues are important to them?

Getting rid of the corrupt politicians doesn’t mean you will be replacing them with anyone better, even when you think you are. Do we even know any of these people that we elect? Do we know how easily they can be persuaded to sell their principles (if they had any) down the river for favors or money?

I’m just trying to play the devils advocate here, because I do find it frustrating as hell that even when we have the majority on our side, the minority seems to get their way. Why is that?
How is one little old lady who spills hot coffee on herself able to force a global company into buying different coffee cups and putting idiotic labels on the cups warning that the fucking coffee is hot??!!

How is one person who shoots people with a certain firearm or equipped with a certain device or accessory able to change or cause that firearm to be banned for everyone despite the fact that 85% of people were in favor of no regulations at all?

We elect a president who is supposed to be 2nd Amendment supporter and yet he seems to be taking orders from NRA, who is also supposed to be 2nd Amendment supporter.
Who is runnig this country?! Our elected officials or someone else??

I would love to see bigger voter turn out, but we can’t put a gun to their heads and make them vote.

My sister does not vote. Her excuse… “Why bother? Nothing changes anyway and they (politicians) do what they want”

My son does not vote. His excuse… “I’m working too much and I can’t afford to take off work” (Trust me, I’ve argued about that lame excuse)

My neice doesn’t vote. Her excuse… “I’m not interested in politics”

My son in law does not vote. He says “I don’t believe in government and there’s shouldn’t be government” (anarchist)

Sadly, this is my own family and nothing I have said can get them to vote. No arguement I have made, no way that I have made it personal to their lives and circumstances has worked.

And we are letting people into this country who actually profess that they hate America and what it stands for. We welcome them with open arms and then let them demand we change to suit them.

Its sickening.
OK, rant and rambling over.

maybe

2 Likes

@RedAngel people are not as complicated as we would hope they truly are. Most of human Psychology was decoded by German physicians long before modern times. This cycle repeats itself over and over again if not for the intervention of one simple thing. Religion. Every time a civilization becomes comfortable and then becomes more afraid of loosing ones personal life and belongings than fighting for a larger cause the only saving grace becomes religion.
Our nation has forgotten religion. With no larger cause than self to drive daily behaviors and performance we are slowly circling the drain towards the arrival of a Socialist Dictator. If you follow examples thru history love of person is always the start, no matter what actions are taken in the interim.
We like to point at the left and the democrats as the cause but, conservative posers are as much the cause of this as any other group. If you are unwilling to sacrifice self and personal gain for the greater cause… Freedom and the American way then it will always end this way.
I weekly call the so called Patriots on this forum out about these behaviors. I know it will not effect the outcome but, I still hold onto hope that maybe a fire can be lit out there.
Ultimately Fear, Cowardice, apathy and pacification by the ruling powers have lead to America rapidly becoming a Plutocracy and most are completely blind to that evolution. The wealthy buy their way into power and manipulate the masses thru promises of the easy life and wealth.
We will die as a nation not due to the forces of an enemy power but, firstly due to the loss of accountability to ourselves and to a greater ideal.

“everyone want’s to go to heaven, but no one wants to die”

1 Like

Apathy or the can’t blame me because I didn’t vote.
And BTW
image

6 Likes

Nope
HK as in Heckler and Koch.

1 Like

:rofl::joy::rofl:

1 Like

but HK makes AR15s

Heckler & Koch G28 DMR Complete Rifle Package 7.62x51

SKU#: 253914. MSRP$16,999.99.

or in this case “AR10” - unless you are referring to the roller lock

2 Likes

Actually no.
The Brits did not impose Taxes as we know today.
They were Tariffs.
Primarily, they were levied on ships on a per-tonnage basis, slaves, tobacco, and alcoholic beverages. In all, the average tariff worked out to about 10 percent of the value of imports, with lower rates being imposed on goods from Britain than from elsewhere.

The term Taxation without Representation is the act of being taxed by an authority without the benefit of having elected representatives. The term became part of an anti-British slogan when the original 13 American colonies aimed to revolt against the British Empire.

The United States did the same from 1770 to the start of WW1 to pay for government and a brief period during the Civil War taxes were imposed.
It wasn’t until the 30’s when Roosevelt and the Democraps imposed Income Tax and Sales Tax as we know today.

1 Like

The company went crazy awhile back.
Had to start producing a Sub Standard rifle to stay competitive with the militaries.
Delayed Roller is by far a better system.
But that’s another subject…

1 Like

Well I’m not feeling very represented then.

I also don’t feel like paying taxes is my patriotic duty.

If an uprising or revolt is not a means of solving this problem, and we can not get people to vote, then not paying our taxes may very well be needed.

Is it patriotic of my government to spend my tax dollars by sending it to other countries, even terrorist countries? Is it patriotic for the government to spend my tax dollars busing in illegal immigrants from other countries and using tax dollars to house, feed, cloth and pay for medical and education of these same people? Is it my responsibility as a tax payer to fund every stinkin government charity program that my government can come up with? Is it my responsibilty to take care of people who refuse to take care of themselves, or for that matter, can not take care of themselves?
Why on earth would I be giving money away when I am too poor to pay for my own lifestyle and am forced to borrow money with interest from someone else?

Patriotism is defending your country (its people), its traditions and values, not its leaders.

Now maybe I am misunderstanding both of you, I’m not sure. Hell, I don’t even know what page we are on right now. Same page? Different page? And maybe this is not the correct forum for this kind of conversation, but all of us see the country we love falling to pieces and we are just trying to come up with some solution or idea that will turn it around. Maybe there’s not one right answer and maybe there won’t be one event that will change things, perhaps a sequence of events, but I don’t think anyone here is unpatriotic. Most of us have a line in the sand, perhaps we don’t know where it is and won’t ever know until we reach it. But right now, we are just sharing possible solutions and ideas.

3 Likes

I have never once stated that our government is patriotic at all… as a matter of fact I believe the opposite is rapidly becoming more and more true. I am only referring to individual patriotism.
The years that out politicians actually cared more for American than their personal bottom line are long gone. The Plutocracy is all that remains.
plu·toc·ra·cy
/plo͞oˈtäkrəsē/
noun
noun: plutocracy

  1. government by the wealthy.
4 Likes

I agree. All the more reason I won’t bend over and take it up the arse.

5 Likes

So decide what that looks like…
Do you want to become a leader of Men/women?
Do you want to send money to advocacy groups?
Do you want to participate in political movements?
Do you want to form a Militia for the worst case scenario?
There are lots of options… most of them require a dedication beyond your comfort zone. And a few of them require to be to willing to abandon your comfortable and safe life.

3 Likes

Wow, I step away for a few hours and miss all this. Let me try to catch up.

Somewhat disagree:
You make an assumption here that one will resist arrest. If I break the law in a civil disobedience manner it would be counterproductive to resist arrest. I need to have my case heard. If I lose then it’s either prison or fines or both. Further, If I shot someone in self defence I may well have broken one law or another but I won’t be resisting arrest. I’d prefer to fight that case in the courts.

Mostly agree except for the part about not paying taxed as an action of cowardice. I think (but don’t know) that a good number of us here do participate in political activism to some degree. Some more than others perhaps.

Completely Agree

Somewhat agree
Foolish perhaps. But I’m pretty sure everyone would expect some or total loss.

Completely disagree.
Change the word “precludes” to “reduces” and I think the statement would ring true.

Excellent question:
I will say this: In the four weeks we were in Idaho I had quite a number of conversations with locals. All of them were like minded and loved their freedom. What I did find however is that since they aren’t constantly having to battle hard locally for their freedoms they are not as riled up as those of us outnumbered in states like Ca and others. I didn’t ask specifically if they vote in every election, but I got the impression that the sense of urgency is lacking. Having seen what’s happened here in the last 20-30 years, I plan to try to get them riled up when we move there.

Disagree:
Personal opinion here but I don’t see religion as a saving grace.

Completely agree.

Disagree. Not everyone wants to go to heaven and we all know damn well we will die. I not in a big rush but I sure don’t fear it.

Oh and I almost forgot…

Completely agree.
Ar’s and 1911’s won this silly argument hands down.

5 Likes

@mquinn55
Religion or the principles embraced in it (specifically christian based religions) Have built more cities and civilizations of higher quality than any other ideal. If you take the 10 commandments and just use them to establish laws, you have an excellent and sustainable point to establish a civilization from.
Belief in something larger makes concepts such as nationalism easier to latch onto for humans. Indoctrination at a young age more often than not leads to a morally stable population and one receptive to republican and constitutional type thinking.
just my .02

4 Likes