Fighting for freedom, From Hong Kong to Chile, people want we are giving up

No, there’s a very NZ feel there, no audio, no panic from the warehouse worker, and this guy, don’t even appear asian

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Your post seems to indicate you can see what John was saying, this is not an organic protest, these are not protesters, these are Asian ANTIFA and being protected the same

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The paper that was burned is VERY pro protesters… so why would the protesters burn a paper that supports them? :thinking: they wouldn’t…
So the clash goes on.
When I see or hear anyone claiming that the US police would start shooting protesters I have to laugh. They damn near let protesters burn down cities here.
I have yet to see any video coming from independent reporters or writers of the Hong Kong protesters destroying and looting business. Unlike antifa.

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And as for why the protesters are wearing g masks it is well known that China has some of the most advanced facial recognition technology in the world… you need that to control a population.
Step out of line, speak up… you get a knock on your door. They know who you are.
Personally, with the police firing 40mm into the crowds I would track down all of them one by one and cave in their skulls.
Just because it is “law” doesn’t make it right.

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That, and maybe keep your empty beer bottles. :wink:

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I watched the guy catch on fire! He did go to a local hospital! Not sure where you are getting your news.

Police are severely undermanned. They have beaten people when they were resisting arrest or interfering with an arrest. Not sure what you thought you saw.

I am generally a big fan of Fox News, but even they have been extremely biased in favor of the protesters. You should see the damage the protesters have done in person. You should see how they bully people - anyone that disagrees with them and in some cases, even people they THINK might disagree with them. For example, people from mainland China are a common target of the protesters.

You should see the pervasive damage the protesters have done all around HK. It is simply incredible! In just one of the university confrontations, the police finally won out and discovered 8,000 glass bottles the protesters had for making Molotov cocktails (something the protesters seem to love to throw). The protesters have used Molotov cocktails to attack the police. In some cases, they have caused some policemen to catch on fire as a result. Fortunately, their fellow policemen helped put out the fires quickly.

Regarding the booksellers - yes, that was a big mistake of the Chinese government. That was commonly quoted as the reason Hong Kongers would not accept the extradition treaty being considered by the HK government. It did get fully withdrawn.

I am not aware of any promise to not interfere. There is the Basic Law in place allowing for HK to rule itself, but it also allows for Chinese oversight. Thus, for example, under the British, HK’ers did not have the right to vote. Now, they have the right to vote, but all of their politicians or those running for political office, must be approved by the Chinese government. HK’ers really want a system more like ours, but it is unlikely they will ever get it. This is one of their current (and prior protest) demands.

Regarding my views, I am a diehard Republican. Have never voted for any person of any other party, and sincerely doubt I ever would.

The difference here is that I have seen up close and personal what has actually happened in HK. I have no agenda for them other than safety - which includes law and order, and not chaos. I don’t really care what form of government they have, or eventually have. I have seen what it is like in mainland China many times and in many cities. I have seen what HK was like before the protests and now with them. I could not wish such agony and frustration on any country, regardless of their form of government. That is where I differ from many people in the USA.

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There have been social media posts showing one or two Hong Kong police officers that are clearly not Asian. The city was a British colony for about a century, so there were British that moved there for business or government work, raised families there, and some apparently decided to stay when the British government left, since they had been born and raised there.

There have also been quite a few social media posts, from Chinese people, claiming that this whole protest is being run by the CIA, so…

Hard to say what’s really going on, other than there appear to be a large number of people in Hong Kong that really don’t like the Chinese government. Since it’s a matter of the local government being switched from capitalism to communism over a few decades, I can understand why there are people that are upset.

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So I guess this thread answers one of the questions I had a while back. I asked where is this proverbial line in the sand that has to be crossed before we start defending our rights as they continue to dwindle away. The answer I get from this thread is never. Our Declaration of Independence clearly statres:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,— That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.— Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government"
I am sorry but any form of government that harvests organs from living human beings that in their labor camps is as evil as it gets. The origins of the Hong Kong issue was that China wanted to extradite all criminals from Hong Kong to China for “trial”. Yeah more like imprisonment and harvesting. I can see no logical reason for any free person to deny these people from fighting for their freedoms. I keep hearing malarkey about “property damage” and “costs”. What good is property or money to a slave society? The only one who loses in that scenario is the Chinese CCP that wants to enslave HK under their social merit system, and make virtually everybody that lives there a slave. Call it propaganda or what ever else you want, but this conversation has chilling implication for what will NOT happen here when the left finally gets their stranglehold on us and we become China West. Anybody who is too ignorant to see this is already a slave to the global elitists, they just haven’t figured it out yet.
Sorry if this pisses anybody off but I know what I know, and I see what I see.

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Another statement I have seen posted repeatedly on social media, in reference to how the Hong Kong police are handling the protests.

US police are also severely undermanned in some of the cities that have had mass protests that eventually turned violent (Occupy, BLM, Antifa).

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@JPN

It is a real problem. I think HK has somewhere between 30 and 40 thousand policemen. Compare that to the hundreds of thousands (maxed out at 2 million earlier), protesters. Often, only 10 to 20 police show up where there are hundreds to thousands of protesters. The police are brave to try to control such large crowds - especially those with such violent tendencies.

Without enough law enforcement, the violent protesters generally “win” and do a lot of damage and harm to people. I agree - this has a lot to do with just how much protesting and violence does occur. That is why I get so frustrated at the HK government. I suppose cities where Antifa, et al, does their attacks and has so little restraint caused by the police, the locals there probably feel the same as I do.

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Lots of law and order in China. And Russia. And North Korea. And Saudi Arabia. At least chaos is sometimes the birth pain of liberty. We already have plenty of peaceful slavery. Indeed, many Americans seem to beg for it, and both “Democrat” and “Republican” politicians seem happy to oblige.

Even more distressing to me is the complete co-opting of American media. I subscribe to NO political party, and it’s probably safe to assume that any major outlet “reports” only what, when, and how is in keeping with a given agenda.

Hong Kong is doomed. And, at least since 9/11 and the Patriot Act, I believe tyranny here has only consolidated its grip. Pray that I’m wrong.

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@preachp

Wow! You think everyone in HK - myself included - is a slave? Now that is a whopper!

Perhaps you were not aware, HK people are allowed to immigrate to other countries. Hmmm, I don’t think slaves have such freedom. Personally, I can leave whenever I want. The HK government has no say in that regard.

And, many many people in HK are quite wealthy. They enjoy their wealth freely (meaning, they can spend their money however they want). Doesn’t sound like slavery to me! They are free to get as much education as they want. Is that true of slaves?

I don’t want the USA to have the same government as China or even HK. I don’t see the HK’ers suffering like slaves, but I do see many HK’ers suffering from the protesters’ actions.

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@Prepper10

USA has law and order (thank you, police and sheriffs)! Of course, we have unrest, criminal activity, etc., too. But, try to imagine if the police were told to ignore all criminal behavior - we would have chaos! What would you want then? Even if our police and sheriffs were just drastically undermanned throughout the USA, we would have chaos - much like HK has. What would you want then? Let the criminals win?

By “doomed” I suppose you mean that HK will eventually be governed just like mainland China. I agree.

Major outlet “reports”… I agree.

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The question isn’t whether the government grants its citizens freedom, but whether citizens grant its government authority. Freedom from government is liberty, but freedom derived from government is slavery. What, though, if citizens embrace their subjugation?

“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” Orwell.

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I don’t have to. We have San Francisco! :smirk:

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Let’s all be thankful that we are not subjects of the government, like people are in many countries. But, to call all of those people “slaves” is a bit much, especially when they can leave whenever they want.

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@Prepper10

Most of the USA is not free from government. Perhaps you can find such “free” places and live there, but most of us still require the confines of civilization to live, which seems to always include government.

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@JPN

I don’t recall seeing any non-Asian police officers in HK, but I don’t know any reason why they couldn’t exist. HK has some non-Asian judges, so why not?

Whole thing run by the CIA? Thanks for the good laugh! Uh, no! More by young locals mostly.

Yes, China says it is communist, but frankly it actually has changed quite a bit over the last 20 years or so. Chinese citizens can own land (can true communist people own land?). China has many millionaires and even some billionaires. That doesn’t sound like communism, either. But, China does have a very strong central government - and that is where they have retained their communist ways.

This whole thinking that HK (the “tail”) with roughly 8 million people, can wag (force change upon) mainland China with well over 1 billion people, (the “dog”), is absurd. The economic losses that HK is experiencing due to the protesters, are showing up as economic gains in Shenzhen, China (as well as Singapore). So, mainland China barely feels any economic pain at all from what is going on in HK.

The only real losers from these protests are living in HK, protesters and non-protesters.

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@Prepper10

The protesters do have their supporters. Remember, back in June, they had 2 million people show up in one large area all at once (as I understand it). The crowd went for several miles east/west, and quite a ways (not sure how far, probably a quarter to a half, mile) north/south. So, there are a lot of people in HK that have been and/or are sympathetic to them, despite all the harm they have caused.

China’s methods could sometimes be considered harsh. I don’t condone such activities, but I also try not to piss off the government (so they feel no need to use such harsh treatment on me).

Some countries take law enforcement very seriously. This sometimes includes harsh treatments, and worse. Anyone living or traveling to such countries should be aware of that before they go there to help ensure they don’t get in trouble and face such treatment. This is not exclusive to China, but includes it.

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