HELP STOP the ATF from reclassifying Pistol Braces!

The ATF has opened a public comment period in regards to potential future classifications of firearms utilizing stabilizing braces. This is time sensitive and it is important to use the link below to get those comments in as quickly as possible.

ATF 2020R-10 Comments

ATF 2020R-10 Print Document

ATF 2020R-10 Audio Document

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Yeah, I’m sure they’re interested in the public’s opinion :joy::rofl:
They spite the public & they spit on the constitution.

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so in the even someone is reading this and feel compelled to just sit there on their hands becaure you comment makes them think it is pointless, let me lay down two point of contention… first, if you read through the final decision regarding bump stocks way back when, it is very clear that the ATF does read these comments and they do factor in to those final decisions. the problem there was that we were severly outnumbered as we could not get people to comment and those who did just used a copy and paste form, which looked back, at least in my opinion, when the ATF released the comment numbers and other specifics. that all said, again, no doubt they were read and the data parsed. Second, we flat out stopped the m855 ban nonsnese way back when by flooding the ATF with some 80K comments, that were again, read and taken into consideration for that final decision. so while a lot of people do have your snarky opinon that they just don’t care, there is more to it in regards to the process they have to go through and we do have the ability to make an impact. btw, that win with the m855 was under Obama and I am sure you remember all the anti gun rhetoric people were screaming back then too. so it is not that much different of a situation than now… it only takes a few minutes to comment and by staying silent, we have no hope of winning at anything ever. the attitude of things being ultimatly lost regardless is a sure fire losing attitude and so we might as well just hand evefrything over now if the majority feels that way. i don’t think they do, i just think people get frustrated and don’t know where to go from there. if you are reading this and feel that way, look for those lights, look for those who are telling you posiitve things, who are pointing out pathways to win these fights and follow them, not the headline culture fools who just want to keep you disgruntled, dienfranchised and upset. yeah, sorta went all rant there for a minute huh, my apologizes, sorry but not sorry. LOL

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Yet another of your foolish, ignorant assumptions I see. Who said I don’t care? Who said I’m not actively engaged it pushing back? Not I, those are your uninformed assumptions & snarky opinions.
The green tip was not banned, but what of all the other encroachments on the 2nd amendment that have been regulated & enforced regardless of pushback & public opinion?
I didn’t say for patriots not to voice outrage over infringement of our 2nd amendment by the crooked government. I simply stated that the ATF doesn’t give 2 shits what we think, otherwise they wouldn’t keep purposely looking for ways to skirt the constitution and disarm us.

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Less than 5000 comments so far, pretty sad. I sent one for what it’s worth

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I think the point is missed

First go after small crap that fewer people care about, bump stocks, low fruit

pistol braces, just as low

then

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I was going to, I looked over their site:

I planned to comment on how these plastic accessories don’t concern them based on that

Then of course read the summary and wanted to comment WTF?

Because, WTF?

Then I read this:

and noted the little asterisk

  • Throughout this document, the term “Comment” is used in place of the more technically accurate term “Public Submission” in order to make the recommendations easier to read and understand.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

No thanks.

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I submitted this and is for anyone else can use.

The 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution speaks more plainly of the faith the framers placed upon it than the inclusion of the Second Amendment within it. And through the words of it, the framers made clear the sovereignty of the American people over Government to include the ATF and the sanctity of each American soul and as for those of us Americans not so easily seduced through propaganda. You the ATF as a Leftist Government oligarchy Bypassing the Legislative process intends to disarm the citizenry, leaving it defenseless, preyed upon by an unshackled criminal class and wholly dependent on Government to provide the populace with a modicum of protection, altogether inadequate and inept.

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you don’t have you give any information or even your name, I was (am) paranoid of anything connected with the gooberment, I checked it out very carefully before submitting. And yes I do use a couple of proxies and a VPN :tinfoil:

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Its all a sham all the public submissions just serve their interests, the more public submission the stronger their position

This may help you

Sad really, I watched the Manhunt Richard Jewel series recently, the ATF was portrayed in a very positive light, an agency you’d be happy to support, an agency serving and defending the public

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I understand. I don’t think anything could make me happy to support the ATF, I have not forgotten them selling guns to the cartels, forces FFLs to do strawman deals or lose their licenses or the dead Border Patrol Officer that resulted from that goat f&^*

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I posted a comment and left my first name. Hope it does some good.

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you call, thanks for the consideration in helping i guess… will continue to try and sway as many as i can to do this… we can make a difference, we have before

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doesn’t really speak to the ATFs objective, so not sure what type of weight that comment would utimately have… but totally agree with the comment itself and premise, so thanks for the help!

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comment periods like this are open all the time. it is all public record type stuff, so yeah, i get where people can be nervous about things. ultimately though, it is sort like the elections, do we not want to know comments are coming for legit people and not just some server farm? doesn’t that hold more weight and become more of an influence? just a thought

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disagree, if you have read any ATF final decisions in the last decade or so then these comments to influence that final decision. we got beat on the bump stock thing because we were routed out when it come to the number of submissions against a ban versus those for, people who jsut sit back and said, eh, i am gonna be tracked, eh, this doesn’t matter ultimately, people who, like you, right now, are making excuses rather than spending literally 5 minutes doing something that has proven to work before… not guarantees, obviously, but just 5 minutes. folks are ready to boog, really? but you can’t take the time to freaking post a comment? come on now… and you want to be taken seriously, considered a hard patriot or something? yeah, right, ok, not buying it. all that said, this is still a free country and you certainly have the freedom to participate in all this or not, but if you choose the later, maybe you shut your mouth when bad things come our way because otherwise you demeen, those who actually try to put in the work to make things happen.

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thanks for joining the fight!

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you crusty old FULL30 dudes crack me up sometimes, really know how to keep the fighting spirit going don’t ya? nothing like coming here and getting smacked around by your own to make ya tougher for the fight out there, thanks!

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Thank sweet baby Jesus we’re blessed by the presence of the smartest leprechaun in the room so he may steer us in the right direction & rid us of our incorrect outdated wayward OPINIONS . Show me the way, your way, the only way. Thank my Lucky Charms! :wink:

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Well said, and I agree completely. I don’t mind giving my name and contact info. Didn’t John Hancock purposefully sign his name big enough for King George to see it?

Anyway, I know little about pistol braces, and much less about this proposed rule that’s stirred controversy recently in our 2A community. So before I comment on it, I’d like to learn more so my comment contains meaning and substance, lest it be dismissed as ignorant drivel. I googled it and think I understand the difference between braced pistols and PCC’s, or at least I think I do.

So I read the proposed rule’s summary, but I’m still a bit confused by what they’re proposing to regulate. From the little I understood, they want to set up a supposedly objective rule to help brace manufacturers and the ATF better determine what falls under it and what doesn’t. To that end, they’re looking at the length and weight of the firearm, caliber and other factors to help make that determination. I guess what they’re trying to get at is if it’s bigger and heavier and shoots a poweful round, then with a “brace,” especially one that’s more easily used as a stock that can be shouldered as opposed to a strap that wraps around your arm, then it’s really just a short barreled rifle in disguise. Did I understand that correctly, or am I way off?

ATF’s summary cites a bunch of statutes (bills passed by Congress) they claim gives them the authority to propose this rule, like the NFA, GCA and a few other acronym laws I’ve never heard of. Congress often does that - passes the buck so to speak to an executive agency to sort out the minute regulatory details. Those details then become rules and regulations. If the rule falls outside the parameter of a Congressional statute, it’s invalid. But the ATF’s summary never cites to any specific provision or subparagraph of any of these statutes, most of which can be quite lengthy. Or if it does, I must’ve missed it.

I thought I could check the actual text of the proposed rule to see if I might be able to find any specific provisions, but I couldn’t figure out where to find a link to the actual text. My google skills so far just turn up the summary. Main reason I’m harping on about this is that I’d like to see whether any of those statutes actually give the ATF authority to issue this particular rule. One or more of them probably does, but it’s always good to read the statute to double-check. Otherwise, the rule can be invalid.

Aside from that, one other comment I thought might be worthy is how this rule might affect owners of braced pistols that were once legal, or at least not subject to being regulated, to now being subject to regulation. Most of those folks are regular, working Americans who thought they bought something perfectly legal at the time. How many people are we talking about here? Either way, the rule could cause undue burden to all those people, all in the name of curbing the use of guns to commit crime, supposedly. And if curbing gun use in crimes is the reason for this rule, how many pistol braces have been used in crimes? If it’s little, then is the burden on all those innocent Americans really worth having to issue this rule? Not sure how to articulate that in a meaningful public comment, but it might be effective if the point gets across.

Lastly, and this has nothing to do with writing a comment, but why would the Trump Administration’s Department of Justice and ATF feel the pistol brace issue is important enough to promulgate a rule? This Administration is forever known as the only administration that effectively rolled back, and in some cases outright repealed, many rules and regulations issued in years past. Just google the environmental regulatory rollbacks to get an idea. Great for the big players in the petrochemical and oil and gas industry, but why is this particular rule being pushed by the “regulatory rollback” Administration at the burden and expense of individual American gun owners? That may be a moot point now after the 2020 election, but it wasn’t many months ago when this process started.

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