House smithing...

Meet Our Producers Mosin Virus
21

They did make outlets that the wires just plugged in the back. Like 1982 timeline.

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22

Again, I am no electrician so forgive my terminology, but in this case there is a “line in” and “line out” as in what we should be seeing are hot (black) and neutral (white) wires going into the top and hot and neutral going into the bottom… there should also be a ground (bare) wire from each cable preferably crimped together with longer one connected to the receptacle.

Both black wires should be on the hot side, and they were.
Both white wires should be on the neutral side, but one is simply capped off with a twist cap and you can see the part of it that was snapped off still in the receptacle.
The ground wire was also snapped off, you can see the remaining part on the far side (the way we are looking at it) or bottom of the receptacle.

Well, one ground wire was clipped off way short, not visible in the pic. The other was taped and connected to the neutral side. That is the only taped off wire in the picture.

So not only is there no ground, but also the previous owner (I think) used the ground as neutral at some point.

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23

Neutral (white) is a ground and not a hazard, both will tie right to the box just different bus bars , of course with your previous owner, they might be mixed there as well :grin:

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24

I am an electrician. I did commercial construction for 15 years. 1 year as commercial and residential service and now for the last year and a half I’ve moved into industrial maintenance because it pays better in Georgia than commercial. So most outlets have backstabs. They only work with 14 gauge wire (most residential wire is 14 unless its old long explanation). A neutral wire is called a grounded conductor. It can be dangerous @Robert. The explanation is long. In general in residential wiring black and red is hot by code they are the only ones that can be landed on the breaker. That isn’t always true especially in residential wiring. (somewhat medium length explanation). What I would do is put the white wire on the side with silver color set screw the blacks on the side with the brass colored screw. hook the grounds together and tie them on the green screw at the bottom. Don’t leave the white and ground tied together. I will work with older style breakers but if you tried to replace the breaker with the modern code required breaker ARIC fault breaker the breaker would immediately trip with the white and ground together. This is proof that proper wiring methods state it should be separate.

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25

Well, that outlet was in a “chain” and was the only one that had the ground going to a neutral connector. I have no idea if it worked prior to me replacing it.

What I did was to extend the ground of the cable where it was cut short and put both ground wires onto the ground connector. And both hot wires went on the hot side and both neutral wires went on the neutral side… like all other receptacles.

P.S. I replaced 20 of them today and a bunch of light switches.

Sorry, I started this topic as a “see what I just found” thing but after I had already fixed it.

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26

Found another outlet that feeds off one of two 3-way switches. I am guessing there is no way I can make the outlet be constantly powered. For now I made it turn on when I flip the nearest (to it) switch.

I see two lights cables (2wire+ground) and 2 3wire cables (assuming those go to the other 3-way switches) and one cable going to my receptacle below the 2 switches.

All the neutrals are tied together.

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27

Typically with switched outlets you have a half switched outlet top constant hot bottom switched. Check this first. If there is no constant hot. You can make it constant in the box.

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28

I have those too. I think I heard somewhere that you are supposed to flip them upside down to identify the switched ones. That is a whole other question… :wink:

At least I have been installing them this way. To know for sure which are switched.

The one I wrote about above feeds off the 3-way switch. The outlet below those switches gets only the 2 wire romex and both halves naturally are controlled by that switch. :frowning:

The other switched outlets get a red, 2 blacks, and 2 whites. So it makes sense. And I have broke off that link tab on the hot side on those.

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29

Does this switch control anything else you need. If not delete the switch. If so you only have 2 wires so unless you add more you are out of options.

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30

Yup, both switches are needed. That is why I was saying I don’t think I can do anything with that outlet. My wife even said “fuck it, leave it as is” after I messed with it for a bit.

When we bought the house it never occurred to me that that particular outlet would have been a switched outlet. Given that it doesn’t have a dedicated switch

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31

The easiest way to add wire would be to remove the baseboard and running wire behind it to another outlet on the wall. Make all cuts in the drywall behind the baseboard to avoid wall repair. It is like threading a needle by holding the thread 6 inches back to get the wire from the baseboard to the outlet.

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32

That is what I will likely do. And just get rid of that short wire between the switch and the outlet.

Sorry, drawn with finger on phone.

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That is not how the wiring is ran, just showing what the switches are tied to

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33

If you were my customer I would tell you no problem but there will be drywall repair to do when I’m done and I don’t repair drywall professionally. Well it looks like the walls aren’t finished so you could just take the drywall down.

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34

Exactly, plus the wife just asked if there is an outlet in the closet (the other side of that wall with switches). There isn’t. So I may kill 2 birds with one stone. Or solve 2 problems with one drywall patch. And I have plenty of drywall, tape and mud on hand.

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35

Just looked closely at the picture the outlet is beneath the switch. I this case just make a hole in the switch box and a hole in the top of the outlet and fish a wire down. No wall repair or need to remove it. That being said it does matter where the line side of the 3 way switch is. On a 3 way their should different colored screw usually black sometime copper. Test this wire if it is hot with the light off then bam you have your constant hot. If its only hot when the light is on then If not then the check the other switch if neither is constant then the other way is the only choice.

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36

Found 2 outlets that are supposed to be switched, but they are not.

One is in a room with a single dimmer switch for a fan chandelier, and a whole mess of twist caps behind it.

The other is in a room with a fan chandelier with a combo switch - one half for fan and other for light. Same web of twist caps behind it.

Both “switched” outlets are constant on.

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37

That is what I meant by messing with it for a while. I was touching the hot line going to the outlet to each of the switch connectors while I was turning the switch on or off and my wife turning the other switch on or off. There is no constant power going to that switch box.

Which is a really weird way to do it.

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38

Yeah if you had a constant it would be on the different colored screw. The other two are travelers and they will switch between these to carry the power. This is why you can’t use them for power.

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39

I just got a pop up that said I am responding to you to much and I should let others join in. Any other electricians here want to weigh in. Okay so I’ll ignore that pop up

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40

I wasn’t aware of this forum doing that… LOL

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