Low recoil, high stopping power

EQuinn, Have you given any thought to lower recoil ammunition for the weapons you already have.

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I want one in 10mm with a giggle switch 
but us civies are not worthy of such greatness anymore.

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While I am late to this discussion, 3 years late, I recommend something chambered in .32 ACP. Many will tell you that this is “too small” a cartridge but it really isn’t. Up until fairly recently, it was a very popular self defense cartridge. It has less recoil than a .380 and good stopping power. It was designed by Browning in 1899 and has been used by both military & police sidearms. Guns designed for the cartridge are small, easily concealed, and easy to carry. I shot many different guns before choosing my CCW. I chose a CZ 50 in .32 ACP, a gun previously issued to law enforcement. It’s very accurate & I love it.

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Yeah, there’s some dust on the thread Elaine, but that’s OK. Charge the paddles, “Clear!”, and it comes back to life.

I was looking for a handgun for the wife and what I came up with as a solution was the .327 Fed’ Mag. I was going to feed it wadcutters at moderate velocity. Since it was going to be a revolver it wouldn’t need ammo of a certain power level to function.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/327_federal.htm

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Interesting. How’s the availability been for that during the ammo shortage?

Like 9mm, while more expensive has generally been available, but 6.5 Grendel was unheard of until the last month or so.

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I meant to write more about the .32s but somehow got drawn away.

OK, not just the .32s but ALL “normal”† SD handgun rounds. They have absolutely no stopping power unless it’s a nervous system hit. By that I mean brain or spinal column. Handguns simply don’t have enough power to put them in the class of having stopping power.

Hydrostatic shock doesn’t happen unless the bullet reaches 2000 fps and that can happen with certain handguns and cartridges, but they’re certainly uncommon. Once hydrostatic shock is achieved stopping power also begins.

So how do handgun bullets work? With handguns bullet placement and lots of them produces trauma that convinces the opponent to either go seek medical help‡ or collapse from blood loss. It’s that simple. People hit by handgun bullets can continue to function for quire some time if they have a mind to do so.

So in use what does one do? I already gave it to you
 Lots of correctly placed bullets until the perp decides to stop his/her actions. It means you keep firing until you reload and start firing again, or the actions cease. But until they cease one continues to place bullets in the torso, in the head if you’re good enough. And we never shoot to kill. We shoot to stop. Once stopped the shooting also stops.

On another forum I posed the question re: using a .22 for SD. Why because of the relatively new Federal “Punch” ammo that is specifically for SD. The gun I specifically mentioned has a 30 (or 50 with a mag’ extension) round magazine capacity. IMO that fills the bill for lots of rounds being placed in the target to induce an attitude change. It’s not what I would consider a small handgun but it might fit in a slung pack or large slung purse built to carry a largish handgun. IDK.

† By Normal handgun rounds I mean handguns capable of being carried on ones person in a normal concealed handgun. No slings or oversized (no legal technical definition of a handgun) handguns. Example: An AR15 chambered in 5.56 with a 10" barrel and a lower that has never been a rifle is technically a handgun. But it can’t be carried as can a more conventional handgun. An Encore handcannon is a handgun but again can’t be carried as can a more conventional SD handgun. Both of my examples are capable of producing hydrostatic shock and thus have stopping power. But rational person is going carry them for SD at this time.

‡ With a handgun there is a psychological stop where the person realizes that the wound is serious and medical attention is required. Other than a nervous system hit that’s as close as we can come to “stopping power” with a normal SD handgun cartridge.

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I haven’t had any issues with purchasing ammo. However, that being said, it doesn’t hurt that both the husband & I reload.

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I disagree. The modern .32 ACP (late 20s to today) is no pipsqueak. Many of the world’s armies used it as well as police forces. The important question is can the bullet from a .32 cartridge reach vital organs? The answer is yes, and that is based on the FBI’s standard of penetration of 12"-18" in ballistic gel. I suggest you look up the .32’s ballistic testing on the internet. Also, IMO FWIW, “hydrostatic shock” is a myth.

As for “we don’t shoot to kill”
 I don’t know about you, but if I have to pull a gun on someone in self defense, I shoot & continue shooting until all rounds are expended and/or the target is neutralized, whichever comes first. I aim center mass because it’s a little bit harder to miss with a bigger target. It can still happen, but center mass reduces the chance a bit.

BTW, people can continue to function after being hit with a rifle round. It depends upon where they are hit.

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Elaine, if you ever need to shoot someone you be sure to tell the officer that you shot to kill and see what happens. We shoot to stop. Did you read what I wrote? I was quite clear about head shots yada, yada. What about that isn’t lethal? I suggest you remove shooting to kill from your brain when it comes to lethal force. That could get you charged with murder. We shoot to stop. It’s a legal issue. Or use that thinking and totally destroy your life, it’s your life.

As far as disagreeing with me and the .32 just what did I say about it that you disagree with? By all means quote my exact words. Heck, I even mentioned .22s as a PD cartridge.

You’re off to a great start.

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I never said I shoot to kill. I said, I shoot to neutralize the target.

Quote
 “I don’t know about you, but if I have to pull a gun on someone in self defense, I shoot & continue shooting until all rounds are expended and/or the target is neutralized, whichever comes first.”

Now then, show me where I said I shoot to kill.

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And, “neutralized” means to be made inert, ineffective, nullified, and the next one I particularly like - neutered.

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You just want to argue. Good luck with that. It’s a very negative personality trait.

So if we were in agreement why did you start your post in an argumentative way? You started out with an argument that I’m still waiting for you to prove. I see you ignored the statement you made where I said the .32 was lacking. What’s up with that? Quote my words. This is twice that I asked you to do so. So far crickets.

We try to get along on this forum. Heck, any forum. If you wouldn’t behave in a certain manner in person, then that behavior isn’t OK online either. Or do you act this way in personal interactions? If so you must be a real joy to be around.

Yeah, you just want to argue. I have no time for that shitty personality type.

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Whatever.

You indicated that you shoot to wound. I said I shoot to neutralize.
You indicated that the .32 and all pistol rounds are lacking. I disagree.

I debate issues. I do not name call & tell people they have a shitty personality. To me, that says more about you than me.

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My language is this, “I will continue to defend until the assualt ceases. I will do my best to end the assault as quickly as possible”. Yes I know that ‘Neutralize’ is a word means essentially that.

Brian might have been refering to the fact that it also has a tactical/military kind of flavor. One that these commie Soros prosecutors will use to destroy your life. i.e. ‘Neutralize the Target’.

It sucks that we have to be so polyanish with our language. As defenders of law and order, and of our natural born, God given rights, we are now percieved as the threat while the criminals are not.

To take this country out, the commies know they will have to Neutralize us, and they plan on it.

BTW really glad you’ve joined us. :beers:

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Thank you for the welcome & the explanation.

In a former life, I worked for NASA, DOD, & DOE. I worked daily with the military & then, I married military (USN GMC) & am a military daughter (USN GM). I guess it rubbed off.

My people escaped Eastern Europe. I am Slovak, Hungarian, & Rusyn. I grew up hearing the horror stories about Communism. I am what I am, including direct.
.
I once told off a cop, who was hollering at me for interceding in a domestic dispute. I beat the crap out of a guy choking his SO in a convertible with a kid in the back. I used an Economics textbook to do the beating. The officer told me, “You could have been killed!” Told him I grew up in the Baltimore - DC corridor & could take care of myself.

Words have meaning and it saddens me that so many have forgotten or never learned vocabulary & grammar, for a start. Words have power. I intend to use them.

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Especially if they’re in an Economics text book, apparently. LMAO :joy:

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I wish more of US could actually talk to survivors of Communism and Totalitarianism.

Wish more of US knew that Communism was actually tried here. 50 percent of the particpants in the failed experiment died. Outside help fortunately managed to save the survivors of the Plymouth Colony who mended their ways


Well, until they started burning strong successful and outspoken women as witches.

No worries here, we gave that up
 :+1::wink:

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I wanted to make a positive reply for funs but don’t grasp your meaning well enough :man_shrugging:

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Heck @Elaine i wouldn’t stand in front of the antiquated. 32acp. Shoot placement and amount are the key to stopping power. I carry a NAA 22mag as a backup with Hornaday critical defense loaded. it may not shock the nervous system but it will shock the recipient unless they are jacked up on drugs.

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Ain’t that the truth!

I lived in Baltimore during the heyday of PCP. If I remember correctly, that was the 70s & 80s. I don’t care what you used, it wouldn’t stop anyone jacked up on PCP. My uncle Frank was a Baltimore County officer back then. He absolutely hated that drug. Don’t know if the stories are true or not, but I remember hearing about PDP users being shot 20 times & they still kept coming. As was told to me, half of them were dead and didn’t know it.

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