Here’s what I think, tell me what you think. I think that a person planning to go into a Walmart or any of these public places or and starts shooting people, innocent people. I think they would think twice if they knew that once they opened fire there would be a lot of return fire. It’s crazy how it’s so easy for a person like that to go grab a gun and do this kind of damage, but it’s so difficult for a person who wants to protect themselves to get a license to carry, who wants to go get the education and understand when to use and how to use. The problem is that there’s a disadvantage right, and I don’t know maybe, I’m not trying to create the Wild Wild West. But what I am trying to create is a system where theirs balance, theirs balance , you just don’t get to be crazy, you just don’t get to be crazy and run up in here and do what you feel like you want to do without some repercussions without some backfire.
I don’t think you’re crazy at all. I’m a firm believer that if more people carried guns there would be less accidents because safety would be passed down to future generations and less killings cause they know they would likely be killed quickly
The logic here is flawed…
Only in that it assumes that the people doing these things are driven by sane and normal motivations. That in itself is a fallacy.
This is mental illness, by definition attempting to classify their behaviors or reactions into a “normal” persons mental process will result in failure.
1.) More people with guns = faster response time = probably not… People who CCW are not by and large sheepdogs, several CCW holders including an ex-military fellow where in range of the Wal-Mart shooter and took no action other than to hide, self preservation is a primary instinct. Most people will hide unless a direct threat is taken against them.
2.) “An armed society is a polite society” = False (in modern context) The remainder of that quote is " Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” IF you reverted justice and the legal system to one where vigilante action did not result in loss of freedoms and financial ruin, this rule is true. Under our current legal system people would still be terrified to act.
3.) A person is smart. “People” are scared sheep who behave in whatever fashion the mod dictates they behave. Armed people with a mob mentality end up doing horrible things just because everyone else is doing it.
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Worked in gunshops for years. Saw lots of people buying guns AFTER they had been robbed etc. I carry everywhere with a few exceptions (usually involving metal detectors). Evil walks among us. You can’t fight back if you don’t have the tools to do so.
While these killers may have a mental condition, that doesn’t mean they are not calculating. I’m sure there is reasoning for the places they choose to shoot up. They may choose soft targets in order to kill as many people as possible before being killed themselves. Or maybe they choose their locations by assuming there will be no one there to shoot back.
If they didn’t have as soft of a target, they may consider a different location. I heard about the man in the mall who was armed and did not engage the shooter but instead grabbed some kids in the mall and moved them. I can’t say I would have done that. I won’t know until I am in that position, but I can say that if I were armed, I would have done what I could to actually use my firearm to stop the threat. I wonder how many others there were armed.
the worse part about a quicker reaction in a mass killing is the possible collateral damage, I am pretty sure once the smoke clears the most recent killing there will be gunshot wounds and deaths not from the initial shooter and part of me doesn’t want to know and leave the body count to the initial shooter.
I get why some people run and hide, you cant hold that against them. If i was with my family then they are my priority, my goal is to keep them safe ,not necessarily stop the bad guy. If that happens fine but more than likely I would get the hell out of dodge while trying to avoid the shooter untail my family was out of the store. If I am by myself or my fmily is safe than I might choose to handle it differently. If someone is of the mindset that they would/will be the type to engage one of these sick fuckers than get some training and im not talking about your ccw permit or NRA bullshit. Get some tactical scenario based training, learn how to manipulate your gun for fighting. Theres literally a few highly regarded professional trainers on this forum that do this stuff for a living( @READYMAN and @MaxTac being a few of them). Your basic Concealed carry class or home defense course really is not the same thing either. This type of training usually emphasizes offensive as well as defensive strategies and theres a whole other mindset involved.
Checkout Paul Howes dvd on combat mindset
it might look like just a military tactical type dvd but its not(that is Howes background but not the focus of this dvd). Howe shows some gorey stuff to show context and try to explain what he feels is a “combat mindset”. Checkout his bio if you doubt his claims or are curious about his background , he trains everyone from SF to LE to civilians looking for conceal carry training.
or some of Dave Grossman’s books:
I have never been in any of these types of situations but i have sought out traininh from various instructors to try and prepare myself better. My point here being I dont consider most NRA courses or CC permit classes to be good enough for the type of training we need to counter this stuff, nor do I think I am anywhere near ready…but we have about a dozen seasoned members of LE or ex-LE that see this shit every day, week, month and year of their lives and we have professional instructors or even ex military guys here that you can ask “is my concealed carry permit training and self taught or competitive shooting enough to prepare myself for possible armed conflict”? Or something to that effect…my guess is you are going to get alot “no” answers to that.
(This was not geared at anyone specifically, just a rant. Got in a disscussion on it awhile back and honestly I find it pretty ignorant when someone writes off “tactical” training as unnecessary and refuses to consider it yet openly states they would engage a determined bad guy in a shooting… think about it people, now decide …are you seriously planning to fight, if so, can you? )… rant over
Turns out the Dayton Ohio shooter was a liberal who wanted gun control
Suggestion. Can we please rebrand this as mass KILLINGS. Mass shootings is a term purposely designed by the left to manipulate.
Im with this.
Also, put gang , drug and terror related mass killings in with these other crazies…its all the same shit really.
no one knows what they will do when faced with the situation…no amount of training or videos can change that…you can train everyday and while shopping with dinner, work, kids and other stuff on your mind you could completely fail if someone walks around the aisle next to you and starts firing…the first thing you will do is probably run, next you will probably scream unknowingly…next you might get shot…all of that would happen before you even remembered you had a gun on you…I hear people all the time saying, I would have shot him quick, 2 to the chest, one to the head, that guy would leave in a body bag if I was there and so on…not the way it happens…you can keep telling yourself you would have taken the shooter down, but the odds say you would not…people, especially gun owners and CC gun owners rarely have any effect in a shooting situation or when confronted with some type of a gun related crime…we do see a small number of CC people stop crime, but it is a very tiny percentage. The best you can hope for is to never be where it happens, the odds are you won’t be. I have seen War and even well trained Soldiers who have been in gunfights make mistakes that get them shot or killed. If you have never been in or seen a real gunfight you have no idea what you would do when faced with one. Thinking you would act, take out threat and walk away a hero is a fool’s mission…
But training improves your chances …drastically, why would cops ,soldiers or other forms of armed security bother training if there was no point? I get what your saying but it dosnt change my point here that people need to seek training more than basic marksmanship if they ever seriously think they may have to use their gun in one of these situations. Being prepared id always a good idea, the guy who has trained how to shoot while wounded, clear malfunctions, worked basic close quarters, etc. has an advantage over those that dont.
Fair enough and makes sense but some people wouldnt just duck and run just look at that guy in Texas at that church that shot and chased down the shooter, he did the right thing.
There are situations where it makes sense to try to takeout the shooter compared to just running but as you said evading should be first choice and playing hero is usually not the best idea from a self preservation standpoint. I was merely pointing out that anybody that honestly feels they might end up in a bad situation should seek a little training to improve their odds.
I somewhat disagree with you on that, the right kind of training. training that is designed to condition your immediate response to a very rapid and high stress situation, employing violence, fear, physical stress and basically reprogramming your (fight or flight response) kinda like putting you in a very fast and violent hell little bits at a time and progressively getting more intense… This done correctly would be effective training!
You know it’s effective if you’re left thinking ** Wow that’s fucked up man**
cop at school shooting in Florida is a perfect example of why gunfire changes everything…
another thing that we never see other than in a few extreme situations is how many cops do fail to act or over react due to the stress of the situation…you can train all you want, but it does not mean you will act…never has, never will…
I wasnt arguing that point, statistics back what youre saying. I was pointing out that training does improve your odds even if there is a big probability that you will choke.
Statistics favor civies ending mass shootings more than them hitting by-standers. The church in Texas is an example of what i was talking about along with dozens of other accounts that far out number the cases of stray fire hitting civies during one of these situations. Those cops like alot of patrol cops dont have enough training, if any.