My first AR is a pistol

Duct tape a coke bottle to the end of the barrel


You ever take advantage of arms unlimited surefire sales? Lights , batteries and suppressors 499-599. Best prices I’ve personally ever seen


How many shots (generic rough estimate) can be fired through a rifle suppressor before sound suppression begins to decrease?


I would so many people will never shoot enough to find out. But it would depend on the design. If it’s shot enough to lead up just plug one end use the dip solution and get back to shooting.


I’m inclined now to go with the Sandman S. By the looks of it, I should expect to wait a year after I order for it to get out of jail.

I want to set up a trust. But I’d also like to share it with others in my militia. If the militia is a corporation, I wonder if I could transfer a silencer from the trust to the corporation?


Be careful. 41F changed a few things that sort of negated the benefit of using a trust…


What was negated?


Before I begin…

It should really go without saying that anytime a regulatory branch of the federal government adds an additional layer -or layers- of bureaucracy your rights are being negated.

IMHO the primary negative of 41F was the way “responsible persons” on the trust were required to all go through the NFA process post implementation (Note that I do not disagree with this per se myself and feel that action was taken to remedy situations and circumstances where trusts were being abused). Prior to 41F a lot of folks jumped on the trust bandwagon to take advantage of faster processing times and an ability to let others use their NFA items at will without the initiating responsible party being present. IOW, one could buy an NFA item and give it to anyone they so designated on the trust for use as long as they wanted. In some cases I’m certain, individuals who could not obtain NFA legally themselves were allowed unrestricted access, possession, and use of NFA items through trusts.

As NFA became more and more popular trusts became all the rage. I saw a lot of folks start up trusts for no other reason than someone told them it was the best way to circumvent the spirit of the GCA and NFA regulations. These people paid for and obtained trusts on the basis of a fallacy they’d be less restricted than others with NFA -despite the fact they had no intention whatsoever of sharing their NFA with anyone else. In essence, over the time trusts became popular, anyone with a trust was singing the praises online and others flocked to the trust fold. It’s called Confirmation Bias, but I digress… I’m sure NFA lawyers were happy to provide the service of drafting up and selling as many folks as possible a trust for a nominal fee. Back to my point: most people who own NFA do not nor really ever needed a trust. But they have one and the added paperwork and legal burden of maintaining one nonetheless for reasons I’ll bet they don’t fully understand. :roll_eyes:

Beyond my opinion above, facts from this fine government agency can answer your question much better than I can…

[Excerpt from ATF website follows Link to source]

How Does Final Rule 41F Change Current NFA Regulations?

The final rule affects the NFA regulations by:

  • defining the term “responsible person,” as used in reference to a trust, partnership, association, company, or corporation;
  • requiring responsible persons of such trusts or legal entities to complete ATF form 5320.23, National Firearms Act Responsible Person Questionnaire and to submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust or legal entity files an application to make an NFA firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NFA firearm;
  • requiring that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons (5320.23), be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person resides; and
  • eliminating the requirement for certification signed by the CLEO.
  • In addition, the final rule adds a new section to ATF’s regulations to address the possession and transfer of firearms registered to a decedent.

Here’s an FAQ document with further details and specifics of the implementation of 41F.


The trust.


It seems that trusts still have some benefits over not having one. If I understand right:

  1. When I die, the trust gives a way to bequeath my NFA items to someone I’ve named.
  2. I can add people to the trust after it’s created so they can have fun at the range or stand guard without me.

Were those negated?


I’d say they need to be added as trustees before that point

You may be able to appoint your portion of the trust to a beneficiary to assume though, as a new trustee

One thing for sure its been complicated, if you can imagine


You can do item number 1 as an individual with the recipient only paying a $5 transfer fee (must be a legal heir and legally allowed to own the item -just me, but I couldn’t imagine leaving something so valuable to someone who wasn’t my heir).

I’m not 100% sure on item 2, but seems plausible so long as they have been background checked and put through the paces -at which point I’d ask why they went through all that just to use someone else’s stuff and not just buy their own. I’d also assume the trust would have to have some accession plan in place for when the primary trustee (responsible person) passes away.

Apologies as I don’t intend to come off completely negative on trusts. What works for folks who go the trust route is of no consequence to anyone but them. I just recall being so frustrated with people telling me I had to have a trust and was stupid for doing everything as an individual years and years before 41F came into the picture. Those same people were running around with their hair on fire screaming bloody murder, calling their attorneys, moving this person off here and on there, confused as all hell about what they all of a sudden could or couldn’t do after 41F. Meanwhile, I did nothing but enjoy my NFA items. 41F changed nothing for me -with one exception: no longer had to wait for CLEO sign off on new purchases. See… not all negative. :slight_smile:


Once you get the can in your possession you can have the trust amended to add who you want to have possession as long as nobody’s a felon. But the next item you buy all that’s on that trust will need to go thru the finger print , I’d and bg check. So you could simply do as silencershop does and go the single trust per item.


I added something. :grin:


I have been considering a LAW folder.


I saw it, and it ticks me off. Here I was, celebrating my escape from California, and California thinking took over the Feds.


Looks like it’s a test, to see how far they can push something, kinda like wearing a face mask. I miss ALL my guns that sank in the boating accident.


I could take the brace off and still get a cheek weld on the tube, but that would not be as comfortable.


I’d rather fight it, now that we have 5.5-3.5 majority in SCOTUS, and seats are up for grabs in the legislature. This is lawmaking from the wrong branch of government and we should not let it stand.