One AR15 for everything from 0-600 yards.

Or if you want to kill humans, Frank Proctor is speaking from first hand experience. 5.56 is probably not ideal for deer but could work easily enough.

2 Likes

.308 is ideal for dear, imo. I dont do lung shots anymore, I emphasize head shots and try to get closer than 100 yards.

1 Like

I built a rifle length 6.5 Grendel AR-15.
It will easily do everything desired in this thread.
You can even hunt with it if you use a small mag.
HMU if you want specifics on my build.

4 Likes

True that most folks do not shoot out past 200 let alone 500 or 600 yards. Now, with that said, there is a growing number of civilian shooters who are doing that. I shoot PRS DMR competitions now that I am retired from the service. So far my longest shot is 670 yards on a man sized target. 450-500 yards on a 12x20 is really not that hard as long as one has the proper load, decent optic and knows their DOPE.

Like anything, marksmanship is a matter of practice and proper technique. Master the fundamentals at 200 yards and a 500 yard shot really is not that big of a deal.

4 Likes

True about Proctor.

I think some of us are looking at this from a different perspective.

When I think of a “do all rifle” from 0-600 I’m thinking of a weapon that I can use to reliable hit and put down a man sized target. In that scenario the 5.56 in a AR is more than capable, especially now that MK262 type loads are becoming common place.

Now if we’re talking hunting then it becomes a bit more tricky. Large game? Then my choices come down to 243, 25-06, 270, the thirty calibers, etc, etc, etc
 Too many to list.

Small game? 22 rimfire, 17 calibers, etc


Bird hunting? Pick your preferred gauge and load.

Now back to the title of the thread, “One AR
”. In this context then the choice for me is 5.56. The choice of factory loads is outstanding. Reloading is too easy. It can be used to take deer with the proper bullet selection. Great varmint/pest choice. Quite lethal on “upright” threats.

Personally, I think a AR using a 18 inch barrel and rifle length gas system is probably the best option. Soft shooting, action isn’t getting hammered like it does with the carbine length system (mid-length gas is also a excellent option), weight is light enough, longer barrel a good match when running optics out to longer ranges, and the list goes on IMO.

JMHO though, LOL.

5 Likes

Oh I just HAVE to chime in.
This is turned into the endless debate over 45 V 9mm

Take it for what it is, who wrote it, and why.
5.56 is a great cartridge for what it is. It was designed to really maim people. Critically maim.
Issue with it now is that for the military, and the “rules” they have to abide by, is that it can be ineffective when up against humans that are jacked up. Either with adrenaline or drugs.
There are dozens of reports of troops shooting insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times and the target not dropping, continuing to be life threatening.
Now lucky for the majority of us back in the civilization of the USA we are not stuck using M885 or M193
Once you step into HP rounds or the equivalent, the 556 round greatly improves the efficiency of the projectile.
Jumping on the offensive and saying an AR-15 sucks because you cannot kill a deer or a bear at 600 yards is not taking the article for what it is in my opinion.
I grew up in bear country. Plenty of big black bear in the Olympic Mountains and the cascades. I now live in grizzly country. Deal with very long shots and I have heard just about every argument there is over this or that.
I run around with an “AR-15” or something chambered in 5.56 every day. (No, that doesn’t make me special) mainly because my assessment of any given threat I myself may run into. My load out is a magazine that is staggered
 2 rounds green tip (M855) 2 rounds 62 or 77 grain HP (Usually Hornady or Black Hills) and a tracer M856
:thinking:
Why?
Because I am not going to be attacked by a grizzly bear headed to work or when I head home.
While I usually have a 14.5 inch barreled LWRC I have been knows to have a 16.5 inch or 18 inch 556 of some kind with me.
Out here at least in Montana, 500 yards is a normal distance. I would expect a conflict in the 100 yard range though, against a threat that will be 200 pounds (threats are big out here) wearing HEAVY clothing



And some sort of vehicle.
If the EMP is detonated or ANTIFA goes bazerko (yeah, right) I know I can get home. No Class IIIA vest can stop it, I am a good enough shot to hit my target at 400 + yards even in our lovely weather.
Now I do not know about any of you, but despite me being a rough and tumble type of guy, there is no F-ING way I want to be shot with a BB gun let alone a .22 LR
If for the most part, I will be delivering a payload that will transmit anywhere between 1000 and 300 foot pounds of energy, and quite possibly more than once
 unless we are talking WORLD WAR Z type zombies, I am really not worried about it. The pure fact that I will return fire will make most threats find religion and need TP.
Would I drop a deer or other type of game with a 5.56? Sure will!
I have dropped deer with a .22 LR doing head shots. (Long story, had to)
I will hunt pigs, cats, dogs, gophers or what ever else I would need to if I had to feed myself in that manner. I can carry 200 + rounds of 556 with out to much trouble.
Would it be my first choice to go up against a grizzly? No, neither is my 10mm
 but I would if I had to. Better than just standing there to be a meal
 for the bear.
While there are a great many points being made against the cartridge, there are plenty of points for it. Light weight, low recoil, relatively inexpensive, parts availability for the AR platform.
This is probably why it is one of the most popular if not the most popular sporting rifle and cartridge sold.
Oh yes
 plenty of people out their claiming they can shoot the butt hair off a fly at 500 yards and I would not trust them with a BB gun in a concrete building. But given all the factors and scenarios, the AR chambered in 556 (223 Wylde) is an excellent choice and does have the potential to be a great over all platform from zero to 600 yards.
In some respects, this is like trying to debate the merits of the 300 AAC BLACKOUT
 over a 9mm
 time and place for everything.
But because 93% of the people out there do not even hunt let alone even run the chance of running into a bear of any kind. If they shot a deer, let alone a squirrel they would not know what to do next even if they had a knife
 suggesting that they pick up a 300 win mag bolt action is not realistic. (I am being sarcastic here)
Sometimes I think people need to step back, look at the big picture. Not from their own personal perspective, but from people on a whole.
If you could own just one rifle to defend yourself and your family under virtual every scenario you would run into in the USA, the AR-15 chambered in 5.56 NATO is probably right up there at the top of the list.

8 Likes

Thst is a myth and fmj is also not a good example of quality ammo.

How is this a myth?

2 Likes

And I am fairly certain that is what I was writing about, that there is a failure in the use of FMJ as a target incapacitating projectile. Great for barriers, not so great for plain clothes and soft targets.

1 Like

The guy in the video is not talking about fmj, he uses premium ammo same with anybody with half a brain that has a choice. FMJ is a sub par option unless its fo plinking. Heres an article from a guy that is both a doctor and former SF with combat experience. There is some math and biology included to back his point and he seems willing to respond to questions https://thenewsrep.com/45197/why-id-rather-be-shot-by-an-ak47-than-an-m4/

1 Like

Maybe I misunderstood you, my bad if I did.
Here is what im referring to.

1 Like

Yes
 and again, that’s why I brought up the entire issue with the M855 and the M193 munitions that the military is forced to use. I am not saying anything against the video if you read my comments. I am more referring to other people’s comments on how ineffective the 556 cartridge is as an over all choice in calibers. While there are much better choices out there for projectile choices, each has their merit (this the reasoning behind staggering your magazines) and in no way refers to just throwing up one’s hands and saying that a .30-06 is the only way to go for a cartridge that will do zero to 600 yards.
If anything, I am an advocate for the 556 cartridge and have been for nearly 40 years despite the hatred that even some in the military have for it

4 Likes

https://www.ar15.com/ammo-oracle/history/milammo.html
This is an interesting article on the mechanics of the cartridges now used by the military and why.

4 Likes

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/09/black-hills-77-grain-tipped-matchking-precision-5-56mm-ammo/
@JohnB, 556 ammunition has come a long way in terms of performance! I would have no reservation using quality 556 ammunition for hunting or defensive/offensive applications within its intended performance design.

4 Likes

I will keep this reply as succinct as possible. Concerning military issue ammo. M885 is the standard issue now, 193 is pretty much a non-issue. Even on my first Afghan vacation green tip was the norm. Only saw 193 on the pre-deployment MRE and in very small quantities. Like you said though, the selection of different bullet weight for 5.56 is pretty impressive.

Concerning 885, it was designed to defeat body armor, pure and simple. Thank that to pre-GWOT thinking and the “Soviet horde in the Fulda gap”, LOL. So yea, a crap anti-personnel round from my experience.

MK262 is lethal, period. Great anti-personnel round and standard issue among the SOF community. Also very accurate and whenever possible grabbed up by non-SOF types. I used it any time I had the chance, either in horse trade with long tabbers or whenever I was attached to one of the ODA’s.

Overall, you’re right on point IMO. Too many dismiss the 5.56 because of misconceptions, lack of experience, internet “experts”, and what I call “fuddism”. Fuddism being they see the 5.56 as just another “22” and don’t understand of what this round is capable of with the current selection of ammunition available for it.

7 Likes

Blackhills 77 gr is what I stock up on. I keep the 55 gr and 62 gr for plinking or to stockpile. 1k of the BH cost me quite a bit a few years back.

3 Likes

I download 5.56 to 22lr speeds and use a 50 grain Vmax. Works well on rabbits/squirrels. Only downside is it usually fails to operate the action so it is a single shot pull the charging handle affair. Hunting small game usually not a problem with such an accurate round


2 Likes

I’ve been using the IMI 77 grain recently and it is very good. If you have a 1 MOA rifle then this ammo will shoot it. I get .75-1 MOA consistently out of my Mk12 with it.

4 Likes

My Colt 6920 is hitting under 2" groups at 100 yards, I am pretty impressed with the round.

3 Likes

Proof that a AR in 5.56 can take large game. This was a 473 yard shot using quality ammo.

Unless we’re talking about hunting bull elephants on the plains of the Serengeti, which most of us never will, then the caliber debate is a bit moot.

7 Likes