Pistol Manual Safety Concealed Carry Considerations - BoomStick Tactical

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21

Agree. But safety features can cause problems. People can go to shoot a gun and the safety doesn’t disengage. I’ve seen people go to shoot without disengaging a manual safety all the time - that’s a negative outcome. I hear stories of people going to shoot a Springfield XD and not disengaging the grip safety as well.

Just because there is a safety feature doesn’t necessarily mean it is a net positive. It often is a net positive, but that is not a gurantee.

I do not at this time. I plan to in the future. If I retain the bedside rifle instead of a bedside pistol, either or will have some form of lock on it.

I’m not saying one is wrong. I say both are different and they both have pros and cons. I personally go the striker fire route.

If you’re going to say that hammer safety is objectively better, then I’m going to very much disagree with you on that one, and I’ll explain why.

An external safety doesn’t automatically negate that problem. People who do stuff like that often leave the safety always off, which is worse than having a striker fire safety due to drop safe conditions. If you don’t toggle the external safety on and off on a hammer handgun, you need to not have an external safety and go the striker fire route. An external safety is a net negative if you always leave it off and don’t turn it on.

An external safety is also a net negative IMO if you don’t train properly for it as drawing to use the gun defensively and not turning it on is also a net negative. Introducing a gun defensively that is not in a condition to fire is bad, introducing a gun defensively that you think is ready to fire but isn’t ready to fire is even worse.

If someone can’t keep their finger off the trigger, they need to not use a gun until they stop doing that. An external safety will NOT stop negligent discharges on someone with bad safety habits, it may delay, but won’t stop. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard people say “oh the safety is on” and I don’t know how many incidents I’ve read where the person swore the safety was on. An external safety does not guarantee safety.

tldr: External safeties can be a net negative if they are never used or trained for. They can also be a crutch, enabling or encouraging bad safety habits.

External safeties and trigger dingus drop safeties are different. Each have pros and cons, one isn’t superior or inferior to the other.

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22

In re-reading my comment, I went over the downsides of external safeties and then concluded that neither external safeties or trigger safeties are better or worse, just different.

However, I didn’t go over the negatives of trigger safeties nor the positives of external safeties, which isn’t fair.

I think I need to take these notes and turn it into a full blown blog post going over the pros and cons of both method.

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23

I agree with your thoughts
As stated I wanted to make a debate about this topic
I’m from a time when every pistol had a saftey other than revolvers
I have used one scince I can remember first learning and firing guns
The new school weapons have internal saftey features
I’ve seen the same thing in training classes that you have and it makes me think that I’m glad there here for training
But stupidity is abound in our scociety today
And we have people buying guns that have zero training and zero saftey precautions
For example the mom that has 2 kids and there home was robbed
She goes out and buys a gun and puts it in her closet and forgets about it
The 2 children know it’s there because she told them it’s there
I’d she has no skills to reach them how to make it safe
The. They won’t be safe and there can be a serious accident
These are just a portion of the people this industry services

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24

simple
carry a hammer fired pistol that is not DA with a round in the chamber in a ready to fire state requires a positive safety.
Carry a hammer fired SA pistol with out a round in the chamber does not require an active safety.

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25

I understand those concerns, but I disagree that a safety would fix those concerns - I argue that they would make them worse.

If she goes to use the gun defensively, will she forget to turn the safety off? Then the gun doesn’t go bang and she doesn’t know what to do. She’ll likely stare at the gun and not know what’s wrong and won’t think to flip the safety on and get it back into action. Now she’s going to get overpowered and lose the gun and be in a worse place if there was no gun than before.

She now can likely use the “oh the safety is on” crutch.

It is some “what if speculation” - but so is yours. It’s speculation based on my experience which consistently points towards these scenarios.

Just like buying a $2,000 gucci Glock isn’t a substitute for a stock Glock, buying a gun with a safety isn’t a substitute for taking actual safety steps.

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26

IMO, carrying un chambered is the second worst carry choice, while carrying in a purse is the worst.

People die because they carry an unchambered gun and can’t get it chambered fast enough.

I’ve seen multiple examples of stuff like this happening - people dying because they didn’t get the gun into the fight fast enough because it wasn’t chambered. Un chambered guns also introduce the possibility for malfunction issues due to grappling or short stroking.

What if you’re grappling with an opponent? You only have one hand to draw and shoot your gun - difficult to chamber a round with only one hand. It’s easy to draw with one hand though.

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27

then she should have bought a revolver
training is the excuse - or lack of training

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28

Yeah.

There is never a crutch that can make up for training.

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29

Agreed 100%
But not everyone thinks it acts as we do

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30

It’s very unfortunate because it is the difference between life and death, be it firearms, cars, or any other sort of normalized dangerous activity.

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31

If you all wanted a debate, then you had one. You represent folks I would feel safe with while on any type of shooting activity. The mindset here is set on being safe. Both sides of the debate made remarkable statements that show much thought. We will need to keep the debate alive so as to be constructive influences for the possession of firearms.

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32

I’ve trained with both, manual safety and no safety.
In my experience, I’ve found that while drawing from concealment, under stress, I have had enough failures in either deactivating the manual safety, or failing to get the proper grip in order to disengage a grip safety, that I personally will not ever carry a defensive pistol with a thumb safety or grip safety. So as much as I LOVE shooting a 1911, I will never again carry one as a defensive firearm. Not a problem with the gun, just my problem interfacing with its controls.
With that being said, that is what I have found out for myself, after years of personal experience. We are all different, and fortunately can choose what works best for us.

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33

I’ve got my blog post on my list and I will definitely toss it up here when I find time to write it. :slight_smile:

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34

Safety vs. no safety always bring butthurt to the 1911 fans.

100% concur. In my experience (many, not all) of individuals who want a manual safety have little faith in the firearm’s ability to NOT go boom when they don’t want it to. They believe if they drop it it will go off. They believe it might “accidentally go off” even if their finger isn’t on the trigger. I hesitate to use the word “ignorant”, but there is a considerable portion of the firearm community who don’t actually understand the working inner mechanics of the tools they own.

Abso-effing-lutely.

That’s not even the topic of discussion. How to properly store and secure firearms is not the least bit associated with the presence or absence of a manual safety when they are being carried. Unless, you typically keep a small child tucked into a crevice of your holster with your firearm.

What I see being misconstrued in this thread is the belief that the manual safety is some sort of “child safety”, like a hard to remove prescription drug lid. An external safety and its intent is NOT rooted in the belief it will “keep a child from firing a gun”. If that’s what you think a manual safety is for then…well…education. If you’re leaving an unattended, loaded, chambered weapon in some area where unauthorized persons, including children, have access to it and you do so under the assumption your manual safety is the delineating factor making it “ok” or “safe” - you’re wrong. You’re just plain wrong. I’m sorry if this hurts your feelings. But that is NOT what a manual safety is for and it isn’t justifiable in leaving an unsecured weapon laying around.

Anytime a weapon is not under your direct control it should be unloaded and cleared. The only caveat (read: exception) MIGHT be a bedside weapon that you’re sleeping by. One could argue that’s still under your control. That situation is a lot different than just leaving a loaded weapon in a sock drawer for a child to find while you’re at work. However, simply stated you don’t leave loaded firearms laying around, particularly because you think it’s ok to do if they have a manual safety on them. That’s just plain irresponsible and negligent.

If you think a self-defense weapon needs (requires) a manual safety in order to be ‘carried safely’, then you need training. Sorry, not sorry. It’s one thing to choose a weapon with a manual safety because that’s what you WANT - but believing it MUST have one simply means you have a limited understanding of the manual of arms of (probably most) firearms, have a lack of confidence in your skills and/or experience, or lack the training and operational history with a firearm to be assured when and how they go ‘bang’.

If you consider the (relevant) generally accepted (read: NRA) safety rules regarding firearm handling - IF you treat every weapon as if it were loaded and always keep it pointed in a safe direction, keeping your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire, why do you need a manual safety?

Re: https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/11/the-rules-of-nra-gun-safety/
Re: https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/

No where in those URLs does it mention a manual safety in any safety consideration. It DOES say “keep the gun unloaded until ready to use” and “Know how to use the gun safely”, however. I’m not saying you can’t utilize a weapon for self-defense with a manual safety - but as has been stated already, it’s not a good idea without lots and lots of training.

The kind of training people who aren’t confident in the safe handling of a weapon typically don’t seek out. I apologize for any butthurt. I’m sure you’ll be ok.

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