Self-Defense Gun Stories Podcast- episode 136 with Instructor Tony Simon

rob-morse

#1

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Rob- Introduction- I’m glad you found us. Welcome to episode 136 of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

This podcast is for people who are curious about a firearm for self-defense, and for those who already own one. I’m your host, Rob Morse. We’re joined this week by self defense instructor Tony Simon.|221x270

Tony- Hi, Rob. I’ve been working, shooting and instructing. We also had a two day class with Rob Pincus. Working the schedule for 2019.

Rob- I’m looking for a spanish speaking podcaster who will make a spanish version of Self-Defense Gun Stories. If you know someone, then please ask them to contact us. Until then, Tony, please introduce our podcast to our new listeners in English.

Tony- We study several examples where gun owners survived a life threatening situation. Were they lucky, or did they have a plan? What should we do if we were in their place? Our first story took place last week in Springfield, Missouri.

Rob- First story- Are you armed as you visit your relatives?

You’re visiting with your relatives. It is after dinner and the first sign of trouble is the sound of shots from the backyard. You step out the back door to see a police officer standing next to a stranger kneeling on the ground. You walk over to the officer and notice that the officer has his gun out. The suspect sitting on the ground has a gun too. The stranger’s gun is pointed at you. Now you notice that the suspect is bleeding. You say, “Hey, there is an ambulance in front of the house, you’re going to be OK.”

The stranger raises his firearm and you shoot the man threatening you. So does the police officer. The police officer’s gun was jammed when you walked over. The officer cleared his firearm and reloaded as you talked to the armed fugitive. The same criminal who had already shot at the police.

Tony- That is a frightening situation for everyone involved. Too bad the bad guy forced people to shoot him.

Rob- What did our defender do right?

Tony- The defender had his firearm on him and was ready to use it to defend a life. He knew what could happen if he had to pull the trigger. He used verbal skills to express what he would do if the bad guy didn’t do what he was told. He also used those skills to let the officer know that he was a good guy.

Rob- It must be a shock to see a wounded man in your backyard… And to discover you’re standing next to a police officer.

Tony- I say it over and over. You never know what your fight will look like. Who practices to be backup for a uniformed officer in your family’s backyard?

Rob- What would you tell your students to do?

Tony- Know your line, what makes you get involved as a third party in a armed confrontation?

It’s important to understand that carrying a firearm for personal protection doesn’t make you a police officer. You don’t have to run to the sound of gun fire. Becoming involved in this confrontation could have cost the good guy his life. He could have been killed by either of the officers, or by the bad guy.

Rob- It also makes it very clear why you don’t run around with a gun in your hands. You don’t point your gun at a shadow in the dark.

Tony- That is what bad guys do. That will get you shot if one of those dark shapes is a cop. Here are some other lessons.
This happened at night, do you carry a flashlight? Does your self defense gun have a weapon mounted light?

Rob- Anything else?

Tony- That is enough for now. Our second story happened last week in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed at home?

You’re selling your video game console and some games. An online buyer wants to see it, and he says he has cash. It is a few days before Christmas, and you could use the money. Two men come over. They want to see the games and make sure they work. They seem to like them. The two men attack you and try to take the games. You’re armed and you shoot your attackers. You stay in your apartment and call police and EMTs.

Tony- We’ve seen this story before.

Rob- I’m sorry. I thought news report came in last week.

Tony- It happens every week. Don’t invite strangers to your home. You don’t know who answers your ads. Conduct person to person sales at the local police station.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Tony- POGO Having your handgun on your person is something to practice doing so it comes naturally. We had many stories on this podcast about citizens saving lives, lives that would have be lost if the good guy had to run away to get a gun and then run back.

Rob- Our good guy defended himself. What else did he do correctly?

Tony- Call the police, stay on the scene and point out evidence and witnesses if you can because that is what the good guys do.

Rob- What would you tell your students to do…besides sell their video games so they have more money to take training classes with you?

Tony- Be aware that there are predators online that look for trusting people to invite them to their homes.

Our third story happened last week outside of Little Rock, Arkansas.

Rob- Third story- Are you armed at home late at night?

It is dark outside and things are quiet. That is why the screams and pounding on your front door come as such a shock. You turn on the front porch light and see your neighbor slumped down on the ground. You quickly open the door and see your neighbor’s son running at you with something in his hand. You know that your neighbor’s son has been in trouble with the law before. You tell him to stop. The son steps closer to his father, and you see that the son has a rock in his hand. You draw your firearm and tell him to leave. The attacker steps back and you call police and EMTs.

They arrive a few minutes later. Your neighbor died at the hospital from injuries he received from his son. The son is arrested. He was out on parole for an earlier violent attack.

Tony- The son broke through the back door of his father’s home. The bad guy in this story had a history of attacking his father. He was on parole for attacking his dad in 2014 and stealing his father’s car. A definite bad guy.

Rob- So this sort of attack is happens fairly often?

Tony- Way too often. Sadly many violent confrontations are between people that know each other. Assaults with fists and a club are far more common than a shooting. That’s one of the reasons that I stress to my students that you can’t predict your self defense confrontation. Listen to a show like this one and you will see attacks from relatives, co-workers, boyfriends or complete strangers.

Rob- Was a gun the right tool for defense?

Tony- A rock was used as a deadly weapon. The bad guy was using deadly force on a much older and weaker man. Deadly force is justified if you fear for your life or serious physical harm. The much younger and stronger man could still have been a deadly threat using only his bare hands.

Rob- What did our defender do correctly?

Tony- POGO, Identify the threat. Present the gun. Give verbal commands…and be ready to follow up with lethal force. The son came a step away from dying right there.

Rob- What else do you see?

Tony- Porch light. How did you know that the person running at you was the neighbors son. How did you see what was in his hands? Bring a flashlight when you open your door late at night.

Rob- Anything else?

Tony- Our forth story took place last week in Phoenix, Arizona.

Rob- Fourth story- Are you armed when you’re working early in the morning?

You work at a convenience store. You’re brewing more coffee and setting out snacks for your customers. A man and a young teenager walk in and demand money from the cash register. The man has a gun in his hand and he says he’ll shoot you. You back up toward the cash register, but then you draw your gun and shoot your attacker. Your attacker drops his gun and both robbers try to run.

The adult robber falls down, but the teenager runs away. Police say these two robbers had robbed two other stores and beaten another store clerk that morning.

Tony- Criminals commit crimes for a living. They are used to using violence to get what they want. They come in with a plan. You are way behind by the time you’ve figured out that you are at risk and that need to use violence to defend yourself.

Rob- You’re telling me that there is more to learn about self-defense than how to press a trigger.

Tony- Criminals especially lifelong criminals use violence as a tool in their tool box. They will use a weapon to intimidate, beat or kill anyone that gets in their way. You never know if you are facing a hardened criminal or someone thats committing their first crime and is more afraid than you are at the time. Both of them can kill you. If you buy a firearm for personal protection get training, practice, keep it loaded and have a plan when it comes to its use. Listen to shows like this and figure out when would you use your firearm.

Rob- Thank you. I want them to learn from you rather than from their own painful mistakes. What did our defender do correctly?

Tony- Drawing your firearm from concealment should be something that you practice. If you can move to the sides and behind cover or concealment that’s even better. Having your draw concealed from the bad guy cuts down on the time the bad guy has to react. Work on moving to the side, drawing from concealment and putting shots on target at the range. You want the bad guy to have to react to you not standing still like a victim but a moving challenge that takes the initiative away from them.

Rehearse movement as you draw a firearm. Don’t be in the same place at the end of the draw as you were at the beginning of the draw.

Rob- Did this convenience store clerk need a permit to carry in his store?

Tony- He did not need a permit to carry inside his business, but he might need it when he emptied the trash or met a delivery person outside the back door. Arizona is shall issue, so if you don’t have a criminal record then you can get a permit. You take your class and get your permit in about a month.

Rob- What would you tell your students?

Tony- I tell students that pulling the trigger is only a part of a self defense shooting. There is a lot to be done afterwards and they must stay focused. Being safe with the firearm, seeing if the bad guys are still a threat, calling the police, keep witnesses safe and in place until the authorities arrive. Calling your lawyer if you have one.

The story doesn’t say how far the robber ran before the attacker collapsed. You should protect the people who are in the store with you. It is also called honoring the witnesses.

Tell them to please stay down. You don’t know if there are more attackers or if they’ve all left. Ask if anyone is hurt. Ask them to look around and tell you if they see anyone else who is hurt. Ask each of them to call 911. Also, don’t point your gun at the witnesses.

If you have witnesses in danger then you might have to remove the firearm from your attacker. If you can get everyone to the back room, then keep them safe. Make sure that you call 911 also. Once you’re save, then put your gun is back in the holster before the police arrive.

Rob- That is another reason to have the gun in a holster and not stuffed on a shelf behind the cash register. The thing’s you’re describing go beyond basic firearms safety. When do you go over these topics with your students?

Tony- Crawl, walk, run. We talk about it. We walk it through, then they practice with an unloaded gun. Once they can move, draw and dry fire safely we do the real thing at the shooting range. We go on to firing multiple shots on target quickly and accurately.

Exit- Rob- I learn something from you every time. Where can we learn more about you?

Tony- My website is Diversityshoot.com You can find me on Instagram and facebook at Simon Says Train and The 2nd is For Everyone podcast. On you favorite podcast app.

Rob- After you leave a message with Tony, then leave us a message on the podcast facebook page.

I’m Rob Morse. Happy new year, and we’ll be back next week with more Self-Defense Gun Stories.


#2

Good stuff to listen to :+1:


#3

@Robocop1051 @ARTrooper I hope you guys look and give your opinion on the first story. Home owner entering that scene especially knowing law officers were involved there. The story makes me think of the Boston bomber and the homeowner who saw his boat cover had been disturbed. Of course that was a massive man hunt so everyone was on high alert.


#4

Best line in that first part…

It’s important to understand that carrying a firearm for personal protection doesn’t make you a police officer. You don’t have to run to the sound of gun fire. Becoming involved in this confrontation could have cost the good guy his life. He could have been killed by either of the officers, or by the bad guy.

This goes for off-duty cops as well. You’re not likely equipped for this confrontation. Weigh heavily on the necessity of your involvement.


#5

I went through the Police Academy in 2002. We had use of a Firearm Training Simulator (FATS) there. One of the training scenarios was an off duty sim, where you are present for an armed robbery of a gas station. If you get involved, all the endings are catastrophic. If you are just a good eye witness, the robbers leave with the money and no one is hurt.


#6

They should probably rethink the scenario ending. Compliance doesn’t guarantee a no harm done outcome and getting involved has saved lives.


#7

Brother, that was a LONG time ago. Lol. That technology Would be extremely out dated today. I’m sure the hamster running the wheel died long ago too. The scenario was designed to make you weigh your involvement. Is the threat immanent? What are other possible casualties? Are you protecting life or property?


#8

You know I’m a girl right. Just checking. Not being insulted. Actually not a typical girl. I like guns, don’t talk much, hard to hurt my feelings, replaced mom’s food disposal yesterday, own more tools than hubby. That kinda girl. :glock:


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#10

These podcasts reveal much to consider for all of us with personal firearms. The scenarios are just that but any of us can replay similar incidents in our respective memories. It is necessary to keep current on common-sense designs for personal and family protection.


#11

Dang it! Please don’t tell California. They’ll revoke my residency for failing to properly identify you.

PS. Are you sure you’re not my wife playing tricks on me?? All that stuff sounds like typical “girl stuff” in my house. My wife regularly tells me to stop using her tools… She drives a RAM 6.7l Turbo Diesel on 37" Toyo’s… Drinks Mexican beer… Carries her G19 or her P938… and cussing is her native language.


#12

:sunglasses:


#13

I’m that kinda girl, too. :relieved::sunglasses::facepunch:t2:


#14

:facepunch:t3:


#15

@jeff300 I just now saw this, but I figured I would weigh in. I agree very heavily with what Rob had to say, be a good witness. But I will also say, you see a cop with is gun out, or anyone with a gun out, you don’t walk towards them. 1st of all, it being a cop, he has his attention on a dangerous and armed subject, he doesn’t need to be distracted by someone walking up to him. If you want to help, go call 911. Make sure the officer’s dispatch knows the situation, who knows, the officer’s radio might not be working or maybe he lost it jumping a fence or fighting the guy. Also, when you are running through backyards you don’t always know where exactly you are at, give them a good location so the officer’s backup can arrive right away.

Keep yourself safe, get help, be a good witness, only interfere if the officer’s life is danger of death or great bodily harm.

Completely off topic, 308ar.com needs some gun girls. :stuck_out_tongue:


#16

@RobertM puts out some good podcasts with very good information. Thanks @ARTrooper for weighing in. :+1:


#17

I agree to a certain extent. Here is an instance where a good guy stopped a robber, it was a bad choice , imo. He should have let the robber steal the sammiches.

Here is another instance. The armed citizen should have had a round chambered this couldve went badly. https://youtu.be/LRG5fj1di9k

Another case of an armed citizen stopping a robber

Simply put, there are circumstances where an armed citizen should consider stepping in and there are times they should not, its really based on the situation. Especially with judges ruling cops do not have a duty to protect anyone and with cops like those Parkland idiots enjoying the show instead of helping. It does not take much for a robbery to turn into blood shed. Bangers and druggies are pretty unstable folks and in alot of these cases its bangers or druggies robbing the place.

If some guy came in a store strung out pointing guns at people, he is in fact endangering lives. After all, pointing guns at people is threatening their life.

People really need to seek training though, tactical, defensive or whatever the hell you wanna call it. Learn how to use your gun in a fight not just shooting paper at the range or in competition. Also, learn how to deal with cops arriving on the scene.

With the risk of active shooter situations and all the robberies that result in homicide now of days , I think there is a perfectly good case to be made for armed citizens intervening but anybody that seriously thinks they would be the type to “run the sound of gunfire” better have some training or they are more of a liability then anything, imo.


#18

That was mainly the point I wanted to hit on with the first story. Let me tell you about a scenario I had training with…

  1. Get on scene: one subject standing, hands in the air, with no weapon. a second subject holding the first at gun point.

  2. As you approach gun drawn on the 2nd subject, he holds out a badge and states he is an off duty cop.

What do you do at this point? Well if he is a cop he shouldn’t be a threat and should be there to help. But do you know him (lets say you don’t)? Does he have a weapon that could be used to cause death or great bodily harm to you or the other subject? Yes he does, which makes him a threat. Until you can verify the 2nd subject with the badge is who he says he is, he is a threat and should be treated like a suspect for the officer’s safety. The officer should give the 2nd subject commands to drop the gun and command both subjects to lay face down on the ground with their hands out to the side or behind their head.

You don’t know if this off duty cop is really a bad guy pretending to be a cop. It isn’t hard to get a badge or even an police ID made. I have had to deal with several people pretending to be cops. Anyone is a threat until verified otherwise.

So back to the original story, someone comes towards a cop when he has someone at gunpoint, that person should instantly become a threat and a suspect for the officer’s safety. Just better to be a good witness and to call 911 to update them with as much info as you can, unless the situation has already turned south and that officer has been wounded.

Now other situations where you legally defend yourself or others, what do you do when the officers get on scene? you drop the gun, put your hands up, and follow orders. if safe to do so, holster your weapon before the officers even show up.

But jf89, most of what you said I completely agree with. sometimes citizens should step up if they can for their own safety or others. And they should train regularly if possible.


#19

I this case, the home owner engaged the suspect while the LEO got his jammed gun back in the fight. In low light conditions, you can walk into a bad situation before you realize it. You know that as a LEO, but I’m still learning that as a civilian.

If the homeowner was more cautious then the LEO might have been shot. Lucky all around…except for the suspect who didn’t take good advice.


#22

I read where this home owner was given an award by the police department of the officer involved. I’m sure it was the same story. These are good points by everyone.