shooting a ladder

how to make a accuracy load for your gun.
i shot a “ladder” yesterday. a ladder is where you make 5 rounds of one powder weight and compare it to the next load. i made 5 ea from 72gr to 81gr so 50 rounds,10 different loads, 5 of each load.


i learned several things from this. first i tend to go into getrdone mode and was rushing my 4th group each time. next instead of putting up 4 targets at a time and shooting 4 groups i should do one group at a time and change targets each time instead of gitrdone. the next thing i am going to do is make 6 rounds of ea and have a friend, mr black shoot 3 at one target, then me shoot 3 at another so we both shoot the same load as a double blind. i hope this will do several things, mostly help the spastic retard on the trigger get good data. so at this point i am going to make another 60 round ladder and have mr black help me shoot it. i also start with a test group of three rounds of factory ammo to warm up. the new xbolt with the can on is amazing. how many times have you shot 50 rounds of 300 win mag and still wanted to shoot more? the recoil reduction of the can is amazing. when i did this for the a-bolt i hit a sweet spot around 78gr. not much usable data on this ladder other then i need to so it differently. i also got better groups from the sand bag then the magpul bipod. after i get the next ladder done i will do it again and fine tune it. this ladder is full one grain jumps, so 72,73,74 ect. after i see which groups best ill do it again with .2 gr jumps. so if 78gr is best group ill do 77.2 , 77.4, up to 79gr. make sense? of course not if you are reading how a spastic retard makes accuracy loads then dont expect it to make sense.
mr black on the new x bolt.

13 Likes

You should a build a baseline. Use store bought ammo to sight your rifle in with. Now you have a place to start.

I would suggest you do .5 grain increases. You will find to a spot where two groups are either very close, or they start to spread. At this point load down to .2 grains.
You will see the power curve.

4 Likes

ladder 2.0, sorta.
so after the first ladder basically reveled several things. one i needed to do one target at a time to not rush things, two shooters are better then one, do a factory ammo warm up. and i am a spastic retard on the trigger.
so i tried again. this time 6 rounds ea of 5 different loads for two shooters to do 3 rounds groups of ea load. so we did. again no usable data. rounds were all over the place and most did not land on the 8x11 target at 67 yards. wtf? where i really screwed the pooch on this one is not shooting the factory ammo first, with and with out the can. after we were done we shot the 3 rounds ea of factory and we both shot nice groups mine was less then 1" and marks was 1.5. with no can. starting to look like i have a can problem. so now ill make another ladder and i think ill just shoot this one with out the can and see if i get decent groups. that should tell me if i am messing up making the ammo or if the can is doing weird shit to my groups. happy happy joy joy feelings all around. not like i waited two and a half years for this can. oh wait. i am to fucking embarrassed to post pics of the “groups” failure is always a option.

3 Likes

That is number 1.
#2 is try to cool the barrel and at least run a cleaning patch and some clp or hopps down the bore so each “rung” of the ladder has the same starting point.
For my 25 45 Sharps I laddered up 2 or 3 powders, 4 or 5 charges, 3+different bullets. 5 rounds each that’s over 150 rounds. If a person thinks he’s going to run through that before church he’s got another thing coming. (3/ 3 hr sessions)
Ended up with a load that runs good single digit SD’s but a heck of a lot of trigger time




4 Likes

thanks for that. yeah take my time . i just made another 50 rounds, 10 ea of 76 to 80 gr of magpro and hornady 180 btsp. there is some thing catastrophically wrong here, and i am starting to think it is the can. so far all my shit groups are with the can. so tomorrow ill start with factory ammo, two shooters, 3 ea with and with out the can and see where i am. then do the ladder. i think i am at 180 rounds of ladder now and still getting shit groups., but we did 3 factory round ea and we both shot like 1" groups with out the can. thanks for the input ill post tomorrow on how it goes. the shit we do for entertainment right!, so the ar is 25/45?

3 Likes

Man those magnum rounds burn through a lot of powder. I hadn’t caught the 300 Win Mag part until I noticed the 80gr magpro. Really need to baby that barrel with all that heat. What are you getting for velocity?
Yes, 25-45 Sharps AR, basically a 223 case necked up to 25 caliber to meet hunting regs. Nice package for western WA deer 8.2 lbs with the scope and 10 rounds in the mag.

5 Likes

2017 browning x bolt hells canyon long range in 300 win mag with a aac mk 13 ti can and aac muzzle brake/adapter.

yay, usable data! so i shot the 4th ladder with my xbolt and i finally figured out ,sorta what is going on. i got a second shooter to help and we did 3 ea of factory ammo and got nice little groups at 67 yds. then i put on the can. group shifted 12 to 14" to the left. we repeated this procedure with the hand loads i made from 76gr to 80 gr 10 rounds of ea. so mark shot 3 no can, i shot 3 no can then we ea shot 2 with the can. all the shots with the can went 12 ,14" left. i did hit a sweet spot at 77gr but this ladder had a full 1gr jump between loads. now ill do another before and after 77gr so 76.6,76.8,77,77.2,77.4 and refine that load some. no clue why poi shift that much. barrel whip? it is a thin fluted barrel.
so now to the inter web to see why poi shift that fr. any of you guys heard of soem thing like this? this pic is the 77gr group @67yds. i put two in the same hole on the right.

this is 77gr with the can we ea got two shots, factory 150gr
(tilt head right)

at this point i am thrilled just to know where the shots are going! i shot all 230 rounds before this with the can on. non if the “groups” with the can are worth a shit ad they all go 14" to the left. opine away.

3 Likes

12" + shift at 67 yards? Wow. Did you inspect the can for bullet strikes?

3 Likes

You’re hitting baffles or the end cap…

2 Likes

so no obvious strikes in the end cap, looks round and no gouges. the baffles are hard to say they dont look round kinda jagged, but it is violent in there. i didnt look before i shot it so i am not sure how they are supposed to look. i would think if it was baffle strikes the rounds would be all over not in the same general area, but could be. ill email aac. i cant think of a way to incorrectly install the brake. solid weld can. i dunno. i need to do more groups with the can now that i know where they are going.maybe i can see after ea shot down the can, actually ill develop the no can load then go from there. i didnt see any thing online yet about a poi shift that much. looks like a inch or so is common. im special.

2 Likes

The threads may not be concentric w/the bore
Wouldn’t be the first time that happened with a factory gun.

2 Likes

Do you have a bore camera? be interesting to have a really good look inside the can. As you say, a lot of violence going on. Another easy check, change the timing of the can with a thin washer/ spacer and see where the rounds hit.

3 Likes

Great idea. Use a shim to change the timing. Bet it changes the point of impact. If it does your hitting something in the can.

2 Likes

interesting idea. the brake is timed to be at its current position, so there are two ports on the sides. i do have shims i could rotate it 1/4 turn and see. still working on a email for aac. i fear as soon as i say “reloads” all bets are off. i guess if i can get it to string vertically i could plot wound it? i dunno. a buddy is dip netting right now he has a bore scope i can borrow to get in there.,

1 Like

if that was true wouldn’t there be strikes in the same spot inside the baffles? seems like there would be end cap damage too. i have a sdn6 that was loose on a fal and got some strikes. they all showed up on the end cap hole. hard to imagian a baffle strike inside only. could be though. ill try looking through it with the can on.

1 Like

If it is just barely touching something and the carbon and soot is covering the scrape you might not see it. On handgun sights moving the rear sight 1 thousands of an inch changes the point of impact 1/4" @25 yds it doesn’t take much.

3 Likes