So we obviously have enough threads on the militaries latest competition to select a new handgun, which the p320 won but lets rewind to the 80’s to the last competition. Where it was also Sig and Beretta duking it out but with the P226 vs M9, does anybody here know what these tests looked like? What is your opinion of each platform and did they make the right choice?
Tough choice, at the time there was quite a bit of public friction during the testing for just the wild hare idea the 9mm was going to be replacing the “venerable” 45 acp. A gross amount of vocalization from politicians( wartime GIs) and the military groups. They both have produced fans and foes. My choice would have gone to the Browning Hi-Power, but to answer, the Sig would make me feel better. The open slide of the Beretta never sat well with me until experience taught me better. Oops
Easy choice for a combat weapon, the Sig… the main reason is the enclosed slide and better sealing overall on the side arm from debris.
Also, part count.
Third and the reason I switched… the safety.
While I LOVE the Beretta and own quite a few different models, the only ones I will carry are the G models or the ones I converted.
The Sig has no “safety” but has a decocker.
Again, LOVE the Beretta but there is a reason I switched to the sig for a daily carry.
I am carrying a Sig 229R Scorpion as I write.
I choose the P226 for all the same reasons I’d choose the M17 over the M9. No locking block to crack at inconvenient times. That also means fewer parts and simpler takedown. Other than that, they are quite similar. I find it interesting that there wasn’t the same amount of ire towards them M9 (as toward the M17) when it won the contract due to a lower cost.
Also, the open slide of the Beretta has never bothered me. I can understand why it would bother some people, but i’ve put quite a few rounds through it, and I’ve never seen an issue due to grime in the slide, as it’s a pretty tight seal around the barrel. However, this point is obviously moot when compared to the P226 and M17. I just thought it would be worth pointing out its a non-issue. What is more of an issue is micro fractures developing in the slide, as it is not as structurally sound. If you disassemble a Berretta and hold the slide by one end, you should be able to hit it with the recoil guide rod and have it sing like a tuning fork. If not, it means that you have fractures within the slide blocking the reverberations. Not a catastrophic failure, but another non-issue with the P226 and M17.
As a medic I spent a lot of time with my M9. The earlier ones where a bit finicky but, later in life they where completely reliable as long as maintained. I sorta treated mine like my M-16, keep it clean, feed it well and inspect it daily.
The P226 is newer has had more problems already but, we will see how it ages. If the modern solider is taught to care for his/her weapon properly I would imagine the M17 will see a similar or greater service life.
Military service is HARD on a firearm. People clean them to DEATH and they get dropped, banged and x100 things that can damage a machine. Even the 1911 had issues during its service life. No weapons system is immune to the beating a good marine, solider, sailor or airman can do to a weapon.
For the record I carry a Glock 19 Gen 5.
With all my Sig Sauer and Berettas that I have owned, I have never had an issue with either of them really. Even suppressed.
I know others have.
If I am not carrying a Sig, I carry a Glock… ok, I carry both daily… I have a Glock of a backup. Hahhaha
The p series Sigs are good guns. I dislike alot about Sig USA but the P series was perfected before Sig USA or Cohen stepped into the picture. If I ever bought another p series I would just put 500 rounds through it and treat it kind of like a 1911 break in period to look for unusual wear.
Too be fair, I cant really say I shoot the 92 better though. Untail a person has really ran some drills , practiced clearing malfunctions and what not they dont really know what one they are better with. I just feel follow up shots are faster with the 92.
This is my wheel house. I carried an M9 in the Army and loved it. I still own one, today. Always will. That said, I have two P226’s. There is something classier about them. There is no one thing I particularly like better (aside from the safety which is fixable). But, something about the classic series Sig just fits better, I guess. I have no complaints or criticisms about 90 series Berettas. But, the Sig is just a personal preference. On paper, they are identical. So, there really isn’t a way to justify my bias. I even shoot them about the same (the Beretta just a hair better, if I’m being honest). I own both and wouldn’t kick either out of bed (and they have both been in bed with me). This is one of the few times I can’t construct a fact-based, rational argument for a decision. Just like the Sig a little bit better.
And, it’s not nearly as much of a pain in the to work on. Those safety detents are kind of a bitch.
read this article its probably the best explanation i’ve seen of it. I and many others served during this period and the M9 was NOT the only weapon system having issues that we had. It just got a LOT of bad press. http://sightm1911.com/lib/history/true_story_m9.htm
I treated a Hell of a lot more injuries from M-16 malfunctions than I did from any other weapons system and I never once treated an injury from a Beretta malfunction.
I’ve never personally known one to break anything. But, detail disassembly is more complicated. There are two tiny roll ins in the safety and a detent underneath the safety lever that is almost impossible to remove any other way than the “stored kinetic energy” method. Meaning you remove the lever and hope like Hell you catch the detent when it comes flying out under spring tension (Seriously, I almost lost an eye to one, once). It’s one of those things you get better at with practice but actively avoid having to practice it.
Conversely, some Sig classic series have little nuanced disassembly procedures (tapered pins and such). But, none that result in lost parts (or eyeballs).
I was really just looking for anything negative to say about them (I try to be as fair as possible when answering any gun question) and that was the best I could come up with. They’re amazing and I love (and own) them both.
The way I understood part of the problem was the round count and the higher pressure loads they were using in the guns. (Beretta) that caused the frames to crack or break.
Again, live them both. Beretta has more parts… hate the safety and convert the ones I actually use to the G model. My booger hook is my safety.
I too shoot the Beretta better, faster, than the Sig… but I daily carry a Sig. Hahhahah
While the Sig P series has a few interesting features that are a scratch your head at times to assemble or disassemble… it is less complicated than the Beretta.
If you are worried at all about the longevity of the Beretta, grab a Brigadier model.