Will this case end the 80% lower

7 Likes

If you want the them you better get them now.

6 Likes

“There is a disconnect,” the judge wrote.

Not really, if it was commerce then a license was required, looks like it was commercial and this reads like a big cluster fuck and there likely a lot more to it that’s not included

3 Likes

You’re probably right but The concern in the article concerning the loop hole that allows for 80 percent lowers is real and reiterated throughout it.

I consider this an early warning to legislation

5 Likes

You mean private VS commercial as commerce is not supposed to have the power to regulate private activities.

4 Likes

California already started trying to restrict all homemade receivers/frames by requiring a serial number issued by the state. Since California didn’t outright ban them, I suspect any legislation in the near future will also focus on some form of registration.

6 Likes

Not just that. The article goes over what by federal law is considered a receiver (the part that needs the serial number). All semi autos don’t fit that definition. If this case was allowed to be ruled on it would have reaffirmed to any manufacture that there is no need for serial numbers on any semi auto. Because there’s no Legal receiver by definition on it.

The implications here weren’t worth the prosecution. So you can bet your tail they’ll reword it soon if it already hampered the ATF’s ability to enforce law.

3 Likes

In fact; I’m willing to bet that when it gets reworded the upper receiver for all semi autos will also have a serial number.

3 Likes

I often wondered why the upper didn’t have a serial number anyway. I don’t disagree with them not but in the instance of law enforcement, it’s impossible to match rifling markings on a fired bullet when the upper (barrel assembly) can be swapped with quick ease to change evidence of riflings

3 Likes

It only takes a minute or two to swap the barrel in a Glock, so the issue of matching the rifling is a moot point.

5 Likes

That’s my point. Why do serial numbers matter if they can’t trace a bullet to that particular number?

4 Likes

Sole purpose of the serial number is to allow them to tie the gun to a paper trail of it’s transfers. Taxes have to be paid on any transfers through a dealer, and they like having the ability to look up the gun’s history, if it is ever found at a crime scene - helps them go after people trafficking in guns without a license (and not paying the taxes on the transfers).

There’s really no other purpose (for the government) for the serial number.

4 Likes

private sale in many states are legal. In a private sale many states don’t require the private seller to obtain a background check or even to keep record of the sale and to who. So again the number does nothing and can’t be traced accurately if this is allowed.

2 Likes

But private sales cannot legally cross state lines.

The federal government regulates (taxes) interstate commerce, but isn’t supposed to have the Constitutional authority to regulate (tax) commerce within a single state. This is why the 1968 GCA is largely focused on establishing the system of federally licensed dealers, but left private sales alone (as long as those private sales do not cross state lines). All federal gun control laws are written as tax laws, so they have to be tied into some concept of collecting tax on interstate commerce.

When they trace a gun’s history through the records of it’s transfers, there are only two legal ways the gun can cross state lines - a transfer through a licensed dealer (which would show up in the transfer records), and a person buying the gun in one state, then moving to another state (changing their state of residence). If a trace of a crime scene gun in NY shows that the last transfer record was in TX, it is not proof of illegal activity (interstate trafficking without a license), but it does give the feds a nudge toward looking into the possibility that the last known owner in TX may be involved in something shady.

Just look at how often the left claims that Chicago gun crime is so bad (even with their strict gun control laws), because it’s so easy to go to a state with weak gun control laws and buy a gun, then bring it back to Chicago. They ignore the entire system that the federal government created in 1968. It’s not simple or easy to just go to another state and buy a gun, and the serial number is the easiest way to determine that somebody has been illegally getting guns from another state (and not paying the federal tax).

4 Likes

@ Joe
Careful on your statement about self loading rifles - excluding the AR style pretty well all have the barrel attached to the receiver - it is the AR style is unique in the fact that it doesn’t meet the definition.
You could even go as far as say the AR lower is just a trigger pack with an attached rear stock.

4 Likes

But it’s common for handguns to not have the barrel attached to the frame.

Expecting consistency from the government, will drive you nuts.

3 Likes

That’s true except for AR and semi auto pistols

1 Like

Lol, never mind. Looks like @JPN already mentioned this

1 Like

again you need to look at history and early gun laws - where the majority of pistols were in fact fixed barrels to the frame (quite a few self loaders and revolvers), and the laws didn’t evolve with firearm.
the only reason is because the US (North America) considers the “receiver” as the firearm where the rest of the world it is the pressure bearing components (Barrel, chamber and the ancillary parts that attach to the barrel trunnion). A pistol frame (lower) is not considered a firearm accept (again) only in North America and why Barrels / Slides / Barrels are serialized in European and other Countries made firearms.

2 Likes